New Pond Project

[Marshall]

I have decided where to put the new pond and have the budget available so I can start the digging in a few days. It is going to be a turtle only pond but could house koi in the future with no problem. I have a good friend who owns a backhoe who is gonna let me use it whenever I need to so that will make thing alot easier not to mention cheaper. I included a basic overlay schematic showing the general area as well as a basic info key in the bottom right corner.

 

[Lisak1]

Wow! That's quite a pond you have planned! The only thing that stands out to me is the planned depth - we were recommended to not attempt to dig deeper than 6 feet without shoring, as the chance of collapse gets greater at that depth... but that might just be our soil composition.

Can't wait to see this as it progresses!

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Am of the same opinion. Your planned depth(s) seem like overkill, unless your aim is to set up a thermocline in the pond. I can't imagine why anyone would want to do that.

 

[Marshall]

Am of the same opinion. Your planned depth(s) seem like overkill, unless your aim is to set up a thermocline in the pond. I can't imagine why anyone would want to do that.

This is a turtle pond that has to house 12+ adult turtles over 10 inches in size. The depth is not overkill and as a matter of fact is required in order to have room for the 1.5' sediment (clay/mud) layer in the bottom needed for the turtles to brumate and survive winter. Also I said 8 foot depth was the deepest part not the depth of the entire pond which most of it will be around 5' deep and the 8' and 4' depths will only be on the edges opposite of each other. As far as risk of collapse goes that is what the concrete retainer is for as well as making it easier to mold/contour the slope of the sides. Although thermocline is possible to create artificially it would require a depth of much more than my ability to dig. That phenomena is more related to ocean or large lake sized bodies of water.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

The depth of a thermocline in a lake or pond is determined by the turbidity of the water. In waters with a high nutrient load, the thermocline may be as shallow as 4 to 6 feet.

 

[CometKeith]

Good luck with your turtle pond. It sounds very nice!

 

[addy1]

Sounds great!

 

[Marshall]

The depth of a thermocline in a lake or pond is determined by the turbidity of the water. In waters with a high nutrient load, the thermocline may be as shallow as 4 to 6 feet.

I am not an expert on the subject so I can not debate the subject in depth (no pun). I based my statement on what the USGS and NOAA websites which said the levels range from 50 to 1000 meters and the ESR site said 200 to 500 meters. Either way though it is still irrelevant my pond and original post due to the fact that I am making an environment for my turtles to live in and safely brumate for the winter and turtles & their habitat is my area of expertise and the subject I am most educated in unlike thermocline and related subject matter.

 

[Marshall]

Wow! That's quite a pond you have planned! The only thing that stands out to me is the planned depth - we were recommended to not attempt to dig deeper than 6 feet without shoring, as the chance of collapse gets greater at that depth... but that might just be our soil composition.

Can't wait to see this as it progresses!

Collapse can be an issue at those depths in some soils but my land is fairly stable and I am putting in a cement retainer to reinforce the sides as well as to help achieve the shape and smoothness of the sides slope so that will also prevent a collapse.

 

[Nepen]

Keep diggin!

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I am not an expert on the subject so I can not debate the subject in depth (no pun). I based my statement on what the USGS and NOAA websites which said the levels range from 50 to 1000 meters and the ESR site said 200 to 500 meters. Either way though it is still irrelevant my pond and original post due to the fact that I am making an environment for my turtles to live in and safely brumate for the winter and turtles & their habitat is my area of expertise and the subject I am most educated in unlike thermocline and related subject matter.

No intention of questioning your turtle expertise, I am sure your knowledge is substantial.
I do know from research of anoxic tolerance in fish that certain species of North American turtle (Trachemys scripta and Chrysemys picta) can survive in anoxic conditions at low temperatures for weeks, even months, but these are the only two (2) species mentioned having this ability. I would venture to guess that you provide for species other than these two (2). Some of which may inhabit your new pond. Hence my mention of the thermocline. Species other than the two (2) mentioned, from my understanding, would not be able to survive in the anoxic conditions created by such a thermocline. I am really interested in how you plan on dealing with this potential issue.

 

[Marshall]

No intention of questioning your turtle expertise, I am sure your knowledge is substantial.
I do know from research of anoxic tolerance in fish that certain species of North American turtle (Trachemys scripta and Chrysemys picta) can survive in anoxic conditions at low temperatures for weeks, even months, but these are the only two (2) species mentioned having this ability. I would venture to guess that you provide for species other than these two (2). Some of which may inhabit your new pond. Hence my mention of the thermocline. Species other than the two (2) mentioned, from my understanding, would not be able to survive in the anoxic conditions created by such a thermocline. I am really interested in how you plan on dealing with this potential issue.

The design of my ponds eliminates that problem and my climate makes the potential for it to happen very unlikely. My pond has 2 air pumps that saturate the water with oxygen and one of them is a percolator that is buried in the substrate. And since my weather does not get very cold the surface does not freeze and my water pumps create enough cavitation to introduce oxygen into the water along with the air systems.
In order for turtles to survive in water that is depleted of most saturated oxygen or fully anoxic requires other very precise conditions and elements to be present as far as the substrate, water current and sufficient preparation time before going under to brumate. That is the main purpose of making my ponds clay & sand layer so large because they have to be able to bury themselves in order to brumate correctly. The mud layer provides an anchor effect as well as insulating what little warmth they do have but if they are disturbed even a tiny bit and get "woken" up by a person, animal or even a movement of the water they can suffer from hypoxia and die before they make it to a source of air and even if they do make it they will die in a matter of minutes from the cold temp on the surface. That is why the 8' depth is realistic because it provides a very valuable buffer zone between the turtle and anything on the surface that pose a threat during the brumate period as they are extremely vulnerable during this time.
PS: Neat turtle fact is that they don't "hold" their breath underwater nor do they breath through their mouths or use their lungs. They absorb the oxygen through their colon which allows it to go directly to the blood stream without wasting even the energy used by the lungs and muscles to breath.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

PS: Neat turtle fact is that they don't "hold" their breath underwater nor do they breath through their mouths or use their lungs. They absorb the oxygen through their colon which allows it to go directly to the blood stream without wasting even the energy used by the lungs and muscles to breath.

Yes, I had read that. I have met some humans that communicate in a similar manner.

 

[Nepen]

I love all this knowledge talk. very informative

Yes, I had read that. I have met some humans that communicate in a similar manner.

WHAT?

But really, it'd be so cool to be able to do that like turtle

 

[bettasngoldfish]

Wow! I'm impressed that you plan to have it complete by the end of this year! That's a lot of work