New Stock Tank Pond

[RichGuess]

Hello Everyone,
Been lurking here for some time. I have been planning a pond for several years. My first attempt was going the be in-ground, but I began to see some long term maintenance issues (utube) that I prefer not to deal with, so I covered the hole, and decided to look for something easier to manage. I realize KOI require deeper water, so we’ve decided that KOI won’t be in the plans. I have a co-worker, who split a large water tank in two, and buried both halves, and both halves are 10 ft dia and over 4 ft deep, still outside my abilities…
So, we have a very small stock tank already, and it’s been supporting 10 goldfish for several years now, and that seemed the setup most likely to succeed. Some initial planning got me where you see in the photo. I have a level pad, with electrical, and water, all ready to proceed.

Because it’s all new, I can pretty much take in any direction now. Eventually, there will be a “lattice” cover over the entire area, and a ~4ft feature wall directly behind it. I live in the desert area in southern calif, and I don’t believe the pond could survive in the full summer sun.
My reason for posting here, is I’m at a loss as to the best pump/filter combo, for this setup. My small s tank, is only about 75 gal, so practically anything works well there, but this tank is 750 gal… My thought process says a submerged pump, drawing through a filter box, pumping through a pressure filter with a UV light. I really want a waterfall of some sort, possibly a ”spillway” mounted to the “feature wall” behind the pond. (part of the enjoyment of a pond is the sound ). I left an area behind the wall with two independent 20amp circuits, and a pair of faucets, one on a sprinkler controller, and low voltage wiring.

On a side note, a bog filter interests me, but seems difficult to make happen, in this case.. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the bog filter would need to be “level” with the pond water level, and without a second container, it is almost impossible..


I didn’t say much here, but it sure came out long winded…
Any suggestions are welcome, Rich..

 

[brokensword]

good call on the koi--they need 1000 gallons just for one, so...

Be sure that stock tank is NOT galvanized; there have been posters with issues while using such.

The bog should actually be higher than your pond so it can waterfall BACK. Which is what you're aiming for anyway. You can get a rubbermaid container, lift it up on blocks to it's higher, then do all the plumbing/pea graveling to make it work. Search the threads here as there are more than a few 'garden pot' bogs being used.

You should not need a UV; it's a bandaid. It'll work but then you just put dead algae in your pond to feed the next surge of the green stuff. Plants, be they floating or anchored, be they in a bog structure or just hung from the sides, will serve you a lot better. Waterlilies are nice for their flowers and shade but are not the best when it comes to filtering the water column. Think water hyacinth and water lettuce as they propagate quickly. Aim for 60% surface coverage. DO have some sort of water movement be it waterfall or aerator. Realize, the aeration does NOT come from the bubbles rising, it comes from surface agitation.

Submersible pump is good; it's what I use (2 of them, actually; redundancy is a good thing as if one dies, the pond is still protected). Use a float valve to keep the pump from emptying your pond by accident. Keep the pump off the pond bottom to decrease pushing debris into any sort of filter. DON'T scrub the walls/bottom as the ensuing biofilm is beneficial to your pond and fish.

Hope this helps!

 

[RichGuess]

good call on the koi--they need 1000 gallons just for one, so...

Be sure that stock tank is NOT galvanized; there have been posters with issues while using such.

The bog should actually be higher than your pond so it can waterfall BACK. Which is what you're aiming for anyway. You can get a rubbermaid container, lift it up on blocks to it's higher, then do all the plumbing/pea graveling to make it work. Search the threads here as there are more than a few 'garden pot' bogs being used.

You should not need a UV; it's a bandaid. It'll work but then you just put dead algae in your pond to feed the next surge of the green stuff. Plants, be they floating or anchored, be they in a bog structure or just hung from the sides, will serve you a lot better. Waterlilies are nice for their flowers and shade but are not the best when it comes to filtering the water column. Think water hyacinth and water lettuce as they propagate quickly. Aim for 60% surface coverage. DO have some sort of water movement be it waterfall or aerator. Realize, the aeration does NOT come from the bubbles rising, it comes from surface agitation.

Submersible pump is good; it's what I use (2 of them, actually; redundancy is a good thing as if one dies, the pond is still protected). Use a float valve to keep the pump from emptying your pond by accident. Keep the pump off the pond bottom to decrease pushing debris into any sort of filter. DON'T scrub the walls/bottom as the ensuing biofilm is beneficial to your pond and fish.

Hope this helps!

Thanks for the quick reply…. The tank is galvanized, so that may need to be addressed. I thought I’d review peoples concerns here, and form a conclusion about coating it or not. Will a test kit reveal any zinc contamination issues ? 2 part epoxy paint is pretty spendy, and the prep is labor intensive, so flex seal has been mentioned here, by others. I’m in no hurry, I want to get it as right as feasible before I fill it with water.. How large should a bog filter be ? Would another smaller tank ( say 1ft x 4ft x 1ft deep ), be adaquate ? I could possibly mount it behind the pond, elevated, say 6” higher than the pond.. I don’t think a waterfall directly from the bog to the pond will be easy to do, given the layout I’m dealing with. Is it possible to “port” to bog output to a higher point, or should I send a separate line to a waterfall, with a valve to just run the waterfall ? How much water output should I expect from the bog ? I’ve had issues keeping floating plants in the small pond, I honestly think the goldfish eat them.. There are 10-12 5” goldfish, and any floating plants disappear in days…

I like the float valve idea, but with my smaller pond, introducing tap water is a bad idea, due the the chlorine etc in the water. How do I prevent putting harmful water in this larger pond, when I’m not present ? With the small pond, I keep 2ea 5gal buckets with treated water, for topping it off.. Is there a method to pretreat water automatically ?

Rich…

 

[mrsclem]

@RichGuess - where are you located? As far as the Flex seal is concerned, it does not hold up well. With the metal tank, you need to take in to account some type of shade as that tank will heat up.
Any wildlife in your area? Even large koi don't make floating plants disappear so thinking some other animal- deer, racoon??

 

[Mmathis]

Hello and welcome!

You can line a stock tank like that with an HPDM liner. It won’t be completely smooth, but the weight of the water tends to flatten out the little folds. Also, I have seen many builds on here where people constructed a wooden (or other material) “wall” or frame completely around their above-ground pond. These look great, and it’s possible to build insulation into the construction that would help with insulating the pond. Also, as mentioned, a bog could easily be constructed where it all blends in. Sorry, though, no advice regarding pumps and such.

Something like this……

 

[Chucker's 50]

You might find this of interest for a filter

Skippy vs bog

@Loree An overly simplified drawing. Both have PVC “manifold-type” water entry. Skippy uses a “swirl” concept for water to enter the bottom, dead-space. Skippy uses “things“ as areas for biofilm to grow (can use anything, as long as it has good surface area). A bog uses perforated PVC which...

www.gardenpondforum.com

 

[brokensword]

Thanks for the quick reply…. The tank is galvanized, so that may need to be addressed. I thought I’d review peoples concerns here, and form a conclusion about coating it or not. Will a test kit reveal any zinc contamination issues ? 2 part epoxy paint is pretty spendy, and the prep is labor intensive, so flex seal has been mentioned here, by others. I’m in no hurry, I want to get it as right as feasible before I fill it with water.. How large should a bog filter be ? Would another smaller tank ( say 1ft x 4ft x 1ft deep ), be adaquate ? I could possibly mount it behind the pond, elevated, say 6” higher than the pond.. I don’t think a waterfall directly from the bog to the pond will be easy to do, given the layout I’m dealing with. Is it possible to “port” to bog output to a higher point, or should I send a separate line to a waterfall, with a valve to just run the waterfall ? How much water output should I expect from the bog ? I’ve had issues keeping floating plants in the small pond, I honestly think the goldfish eat them.. There are 10-12 5” goldfish, and any floating plants disappear in days…

I like the float valve idea, but with my smaller pond, introducing tap water is a bad idea, due the the chlorine etc in the water. How do I prevent putting harmful water in this larger pond, when I’m not present ? With the small pond, I keep 2ea 5gal buckets with treated water, for topping it off.. Is there a method to pretreat water automatically ?

Rich…

As Mmathis noted, you can line the galvanized stock tank; it's what I'd do, just for peace of mind if nothing else.

A bog is best at 30% of the pond volume, or greater, so you can do the math. That said, really, any bog filtration will go a long way.

You should be able to assemble a bog to be higher than your pond, and they you can camouflage or decorate the edge to hide it. If you build a wooden bog and lined it, you could make it as high as you wish (or as shallow, but with something to lift it up, like cinder block/stone). Having it higher gives you an automatic waterfall, which you want. The recommended is at least 6" higher than the pond surface. Your bog doesn't have to be much deeper than 12" but I'd go at least 18.

IF you make it yourself, say out of wood, you could curve your bog AROUND the stock tank, any distance you want. Then it looks like it's part of the scenery, so to speak! Just have to make the liner work for you.

You won't be able to pump 'up' from the bog unless you provide an additional pump in the bog proper. I'd just make it higher and let one pump do it all. You CAN wye off the pump, take one lead to an aux waterfall and send the other to the bog. Both leads should have ball valves so you can fine tune the effects/function.

Generally, you run the water through a bog slow but we've had good results from both large and small amounts of water input. The ball valves will give you control of this.

If you have only chlorine, you can just let it air out for a day and then pump it to your pond, hence you COULD still use a timer for fills. The float valve is for pond-emptying-protection. You know, like if your plumbing/waterfall/filter springs a leak and you're not there; the pump will shut off when the level gets X low.

And you can pretreat (I think) by using a hose mixer; something that takes your dechlor and as you hose it in, the dechlor mixes in. I have a well, so others will have to tweak this idea for you.

 

[RichGuess]

@RichGuess - where are you located? As far as the Flex seal is concerned, it does not hold up well. With the metal tank, you need to take in to account some type of shade as that tank will heat up.
Any wildlife in your area? Even large koi don't make floating plants disappear so thinking some other animal- deer, racoon??

I’m in Riverside County, Ca. It’s not the full blown desert, but pretty hot sometimes in the summer. Typical summer temperatures are around 95 to 105, with a high of up to 115 (only the last 2 years). Anyway, the plan is a lattice cover over the pond and surrounding area. I’m planning to adjusting the density of the lattice, to control the direct sunlight on the pond. I’m not real worried about temperature, as it’s a pretty large mass of water. On the other side of the coin, I see temps in the upper 20’s maybe 10 days a year, never any ice in my small pond though, but the bird baths freeze solid.

I don’t have any wildlife that I know of, but water lettuce and duck weed never last long. Honestly, I believe the goldfish eat the roots off, then the plants shrink and die. Water hyacinths don’t last too long either, but that’s the lack of direct sunlight, I’m sure.. I have an abundance of mint growing around the property, so I’ve placed some in the pond, and I’m sure the goldfish are eating those roots as well.

I’ve got chloramines, in the city water, so, I’m pretreating now. evaporation, and splashing cause a loss of about 8% everyday, so I’ve always got 10 gals of pretreated water on hand.. Now, the new pond shouldn’t have any splashing, so, just evaporation to deal with. Would 5 or 10 gals of untreated water be detrimental to the fish, in a 750 gal pond ?

Flex-Seal seems like a blessing, because it basically, creates a seamless rubber liner. I would think, even if it doesn’t bond 100% to the tank, it should be watertight to itself, and prevent the zinc from leaching into the water.. How does it not hold up ? Does it Deteriorate ?

I’m going to plan for a Bog filter in the near future, but for now, I believe a pressure filter will have to do. I think I can work in a 2’x4’x2’ bog later, I will need to rethink the weight though..

thanks, Rich…

 

[RichGuess]

Hello and welcome!

You can line a stock tank like that with an HPDM liner. It won’t be completely smooth, but the weight of the water tends to flatten out the little folds. Also, I have seen many builds on here where people constructed a wooden (or other material) “wall” or frame completely around their above-ground pond. These look great, and it’s possible to build insulation into the construction that would help with insulating the pond. Also, as mentioned, a bog could easily be constructed where it all blends in. Sorry, though, no advice regarding pumps and such.

Something like this……

Thanks for the response,
I was avoiding the liner path as much as possible, because the overall look, the inevitable failure, and the dark color. I’m leaning towards epoxy coating, but the prep and cost are making me keep looking for another solution. With the epoxy, I can select an attractive color at least. (Not flaming red or anything, just a medium blue) I’m looking at stacked stone around the outside, with about 1-2 inches of spray insulation between the tank and the stone.

Rich…

 

[j.w]

and welcome @RichGuess

 

[reefsr]

The best way to go is to sand down the insides of the galvanized tank (so the liquid liner can actually adhere to the tank) and cover it in a liquid pond liner. Pond armor makes a good one. Yes it may cost a bit (1.5QT of black pond shield is $60 on sale right now) but it'll look much nicer than leaving it without one (plus the issues for fish health) and it'll look better than using a standard liner.

Amazon.com : Pond Armor SKU-BLACK-QT-R Non Toxic Pond Shield Epoxy Paint, 1.5-Quart, Black : Garden & Outdoor

Amazon.com : Pond Armor SKU-BLACK-QT-R Non Toxic Pond Shield Epoxy Paint, 1.5-Quart, Black : Garden & Outdoor

www.amazon.com

 

[Mmathis]

In the end, color isn’t going to matter because the liner will be covered by algae.

 

[mrsclem]

I’m in Riverside County, Ca. It’s not the full blown desert, but pretty hot sometimes in the summer. Typical summer temperatures are around 95 to 105, with a high of up to 115 (only the last 2 years). Anyway, the plan is a lattice cover over the pond and surrounding area. I’m planning to adjusting the density of the lattice, to control the direct sunlight on the pond. I’m not real worried about temperature, as it’s a pretty large mass of water. On the other side of the coin, I see temps in the upper 20’s maybe 10 days a year, never any ice in my small pond though, but the bird baths freeze solid.

I don’t have any wildlife that I know of, but water lettuce and duck weed never last long. Honestly, I believe the goldfish eat the roots off, then the plants shrink and die. Water hyacinths don’t last too long either, but that’s the lack of direct sunlight, I’m sure.. I have an abundance of mint growing around the property, so I’ve placed some in the pond, and I’m sure the goldfish are eating those roots as well.

I’ve got chloramines, in the city water, so, I’m pretreating now. evaporation, and splashing cause a loss of about 8% everyday, so I’ve always got 10 gals of pretreated water on hand.. Now, the new pond shouldn’t have any splashing, so, just evaporation to deal with. Would 5 or 10 gals of untreated water be detrimental to the fish, in a 750 gal pond ?

Flex-Seal seems like a blessing, because it basically, creates a seamless rubber liner. I would think, even if it doesn’t bond 100% to the tank, it should be watertight to itself, and prevent the zinc from leaching into the water.. How does it not hold up ? Does it Deteriorate ?

I’m going to plan for a Bog filter in the near future, but for now, I believe a pressure filter will have to do. I think I can work in a 2’x4’x2’ bog later, I will need to rethink the weight though..

thanks, Rich…

Flex seal peels off and cracks.

 

[Criscar]

Hello Everyone,
Been lurking here for some time. I have been planning a pond for several years. My first attempt was going the be in-ground, but I began to see some long term maintenance issues (utube) that I prefer not to deal with, so I covered the hole, and decided to look for something easier to manage. I realize KOI require deeper water, so we’ve decided that KOI won’t be in the plans. I have a co-worker, who split a large water tank in two, and buried both halves, and both halves are 10 ft dia and over 4 ft deep, still outside my abilities…
So, we have a very small stock tank already, and it’s been supporting 10 goldfish for several years now, and that seemed the setup most likely to succeed. Some initial planning got me where you see in the photo. I have a level pad, with electrical, and water, all ready to proceed.
View attachment 141411
Because it’s all new, I can pretty much take in any direction now. Eventually, there will be a “lattice” cover over the entire area, and a ~4ft feature wall directly behind it. I live in the desert area in southern calif, and I don’t believe the pond could survive in the full summer sun.
My reason for posting here, is I’m at a loss as to the best pump/filter combo, for this setup. My small s tank, is only about 75 gal, so practically anything works well there, but this tank is 750 gal… My thought process says a submerged pump, drawing through a filter box, pumping through a pressure filter with a UV light. I really want a waterfall of some sort, possibly a ”spillway” mounted to the “feature wall” behind the pond. (part of the enjoyment of a pond is the sound ). I left an area behind the wall with two independent 20amp circuits, and a pair of faucets, one on a sprinkler controller, and low voltage wiring.

On a side note, a bog filter interests me, but seems difficult to make happen, in this case.. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the bog filter would need to be “level” with the pond water level, and without a second container, it is almost impossible..


I didn’t say much here, but it sure came out long winded…
Any suggestions are welcome, Rich..

Welcome Rich! I have a stock tank pond about half the size of what you are planning. The link to the build photos is in my signature in case that's any help and I have two small bog filters set only about a foot higher than the level of the pond, on cinderblocks, so it's not impossible. I ended up deciding to go with a rubbermaid tank instead of a galvanized metal tank both because I was concerned about inconsistent reports of zinc leaching and killing fish, and about the metal causing temperature stability issues. It looks like you're already pretty well committed to the galvanized plan so you may want to think about some ways that you can insulate your pond to help it with temperature stability both midsummer and midwinter, especially this first year before your plants can really grow in.

GL!

ETA: I have a tetra pond pump that feeds to the two bog filters and the plants in the pond and that's it, nothing else, and so far so good. UV lights kill the good with the bad, so might be something to reconsider.

 

[Criscar]

I like the float valve idea, but with my smaller pond, introducing tap water is a bad idea, due the the chlorine etc in the water. How do I prevent putting harmful water in this larger pond, when I’m not present ? With the small pond, I keep 2ea 5gal buckets with treated water, for topping it off.. Is there a method to pretreat water automatically ?

Rich…

I don't have a float valve, I just have my pump positioned about a foot off the bottom so in the worst case scenario enough water will be left for the fish to survive should there be a catastrophic failure. There is also less than 4 feet of PVC and tubing that isn't underwater, so it's not as big an issue if you don't have a long creek feature or something like that requiring long lengths of line. With your setup and mine being above ground, it's pretty easy to check for leaks and cracking in pipes before they completely fail