new to this fourm...howdy everyone


Joined
Jan 2, 2020
Messages
76
Reaction score
21
Location
outside st.louis mo
Country
United States
that is funny you mention bog or filter because the koi farm in NC when I asked them had told me all they used was aeration and no filter .They told me they grow better and are healthier with no filter
no sir im not a bog filter guy, thanks for the welcome
 
Ad

Advertisements

Joined
Jan 2, 2020
Messages
76
Reaction score
21
Location
outside st.louis mo
Country
United States
Welcome!
Can you tell us about your pond(s). Filtration, size, aeration, water features, etc.
Many of us can benefit from your expert experience.
Do you ship fish that you sell or just sell locally? Some may be interested in that too.
thanks for the welcome every ones making me feel right at home. about my ponds, big pond 10000+ small pond 4500+ #3 pond 2000 gal i also have a breeding area with a few 100 gal and a 150 Q. tank, filter is a 4.4 with a blower aquadyne. other are home made bio filters. sorry i dont ship fish... but your welcome here . not much on water features but i do have a big brass mermaid that squirts water.ill post pics in june...im still finding my way around in here...
 
  • Like
Reactions: j.w
Joined
Nov 28, 2017
Messages
2,064
Reaction score
1,410
Location
North Oklahoma
Hardiness Zone
7a
Country
United States
Pity, about not shipping. I want a single koi, butterfly, so that when the time comes, I can have koigolds! I want to cross them with shubinkin, I love long flowing fins! But first, I have to finish my pond. And I think I’d better start with shubinkin, let them breed a bit before adding koi.
 
Joined
Nov 28, 2017
Messages
2,064
Reaction score
1,410
Location
North Oklahoma
Hardiness Zone
7a
Country
United States
Come to think of it, St. Louis isn’t all that far, we do occasionally go to Springfield to visit hubbys family... do you raise butterfly koi? Lol. And while I’m out that way, I just might find more nifty rocks for edging, plants, and hardscaping. Sigh, my pond being ready for koi is still a few years off, but I’d like to find a breeder I know for when that time comes.
 
Ad

Advertisements

Joined
Jan 2, 2020
Messages
76
Reaction score
21
Location
outside st.louis mo
Country
United States
Come to think of it, St. Louis isn’t all that far, we do occasionally go to Springfield to visit hubbys family... do you raise butterfly koi? Lol. And while I’m out that way, I just might find more nifty rocks for edging, plants, and hardscaping. Sigh, my pond being ready for koi is still a few years off, but I’d like to find a breeder I know for when that time comes.
im sorry jamie, i dont raise long fins. only standard koi. but your still welcome here anytime.come on buy ill treat the koi with a watermelon i got a 30pounder that will jump in your lap and cry for a bite...shes 37 years old...
 
Joined
Jan 2, 2020
Messages
76
Reaction score
21
Location
outside st.louis mo
Country
United States
that is funny you mention bog or filter because the koi farm in NC when I asked them had told me all they used was aeration and no filter .They told me they grow better and are healthier with no filter
@ sissy, i dont want to offend anyone, but im gonna try to explain the best i can...some koi dealers in the USA will say anything to get you to buy fish, equipment, supplies . i have seen this first hand many times. im now gonna explain. the reason SOME koi farms use no filters, expense,ele . bills. equipment, and the maintenance.they dont feed the fish!!!! if you want healthy BIG fish you must feed. the more you feed the bigger they get..the ONLY way to keep healthy fish is with good water quality.with a bog filter it can not happen at some time you are gonna need to add salt[koi pond] a high dose of salt will kill all plants, not good for bogs, the salt will not go no where till its removed from water. most bog owners grow water gardens not koi. most will experience a foul rotten egg smell from such ponds, from the bacteria trying to keep up with a fish load most have a backyard full of mosquitoes .most dont feed from fear of overload ..i like fish and lots of fish lots of color, the ONLY way to achieve this is with a filter, food , good husbandry. the exception to this rule is A MUD POND you can grow koi healthy FAST in a mud pond, because of the minerals the clay found in japan proves this thats why i use CLAY in my ponds. note fish will still produce ammonia even when not fed. i have a pond right now, 4500 gal with 185 koi in there . my big pond can hold 500 lbs of fish feeding 5lbs of food a day. i have lost one fish in my 42years of keeping koi. knock on wood .she was 35 years old. i did struggle some in my early years there was no internet[ if its on the internet its gotta be true] there is a japaneese guy on the net now he lives in cal.he claims his fish are so good he sells them to japan fish dealers LOLOL .. its against the laws in japan to import koi. to do this its easy but you gotta care for the fish.bogs in my opinion are for water gardens kinda old school .but to each his own i have nothing against them some are very pretty. as far as growing faster NOT true , better not true, healthier not true. if you want to keep your koi healthy grow faster bigger you better be looking at a big filter system, with uv, air flow, water movement, AND GOOD FOOD if you want BIG healthy loads of fish. you gotta watch pond suppliers like a hawk..most are dishonest and will say whatever it takes sell you anything.here is a good example. [ you gotta use pond salt ] you ever heard that 1 gal 3.00 the truth is any salt with NOTHING added is fine home depo 50# 4.00 good example..heres another ph up 5.00 cup , [baking soda 3 gal ] how about ph down 1 pint 500.... you can make this for 500 for15 gal. or more.. imagine that...ill be glad to help anyone anytime to the best of my knowledge...40 + years. mike
 

sissy

sissy
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
32,626
Reaction score
15,288
Location
Axton virginia
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
7A
Country
United States
No offense taken and my koi were bought back in 2005 and I have 2 lava rock filters and have added lots of aeration and seems my 2 koi are doing great .I also have butterfly and my little butt wigglers that I love .I do not and never have spent a lot on my pond .I grew up with my dad and I building a pond on our farm and he used lava rock and I use it with very little problems .I am not in a cold climate here and the pond is in full sun and summers here can be brutal hot and dry .Biggest problem I have had is with neighbors dogs and moles that chewed my liner .I just feel the more air you introduce to a pond helps more .I even have air hoses in my filters .I am slowly getting rid of my fish as I wish I had done a pondless feature .I do not have much time for the pond with 3 acres and all the housework and grocery shopping to do .Then now I am putting down new floor by myself .
 
Joined
Dec 16, 2017
Messages
3,553
Reaction score
3,051
Location
Ct
Hardiness Zone
6b
Country
United States
I am new to the bog life but it is very similar to what i constructed with a small planted aquarium. Small being 90 gallon display with a water proof shelf the tank pulled a foot off the wall and a three foot water fall dropping into the top of the tank. AND to top it off i had two shaft tail finches flying above the open tank as i placed screen from the front of the top of the rounded tank to the ceiling making a mini avery. The avatar that i am using here to my screen name is that tank. The point to all this is i don't believe this or that is the only way to keep,grow or have thrive fish. While I can appreciate a picture window fih pond/ tank with polished water and the fish all looking like they have never had a scale out of place. That is not nature and mother nature is amazing. they said Tranobel would be inhabitable for 1000 years and yet people have moved back there today. are they finding 2 headed frogs these days i do not know but i do know they have found some of the largest bucks with very impressive racks in that area.The point is mother nature is very resilient. Wet dry filters and bog filters are making huge strides today in sewer treatment stations. So much so that the waters being treated have been found to be " cleaner" then waters up stream. The planted tank everyone told me i had to fertilize to get the plants to grow. I experimented a very little with them and it was not for me. I never fed the fish " tetras mainly " but i did feed the birds and the birds bred like crazy we had clutch after clutch two birds became almost 6 or 8 birds constantly. The birds popped off a branch and sometimes it landed in the open tank and the fish devoured it. or it fertilized the plants above the water level. It broke all the rules at that point in time but it worked non the less. https://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/threads/paldarium-vivarium-im-unsure-but-i-think-youll-like.110988/
So here is the next venture a pond . so far so good time will tell.
 
Joined
Nov 28, 2017
Messages
2,064
Reaction score
1,410
Location
North Oklahoma
Hardiness Zone
7a
Country
United States
im sorry jamie, i dont raise long fins. only standard koi. but your still welcome here anytime.come on buy ill treat the koi with a watermelon i got a 30pounder that will jump in your lap and cry for a bite...shes 37 years old...
Your fish is older than me! I love the look of long flowing fins, so I’ll have to find a place to get a good affordable one. I’m not looking for expensive fish, I’m out in the country with lots of critters to keep population in check given a chance, and lord knows, I’ll probably start my new fish out in the qt tank which will be safer than the pond. Then once I get my koi, it will be it’s grow up tank till it’s big enough to be safe from the smaller predators. We have king fisher, heron, raccoon, hawks, etc, with occasional bald eagles.
 
Ad

Advertisements

Joined
Jan 2, 2020
Messages
76
Reaction score
21
Location
outside st.louis mo
Country
United States
a couple of tips for Jamie B; ill start with the coons, fierce little critters i raised one when i was young. get the first step off the ledge of the pond OVER 12 inches. so if yo plan on rocks planters etc make the first step deeper. they dont like deep water and they must swim ...in the winter , dont run the pump if they are anywhere close they will hear the water falls and they are attracted to the site. use traps .if you relocate them make sure its at least 3 miles away from any creek thats close.dont want them coming back. you really gotta watch them when the first sign of water getting cold or ice coming. there is only a couple of hawks that specialize in catching fish..you live in the sticks ...[12 ga] does the trick. or stretch a net over os they cant swoop down.. fishers i have NO clue i never saw one. the big killer that is keen is the Heron....dogs will be a huge help,around here i have friends that use the newer camera systems that hook up to the new smart phones. they have a grid you can spread around the areas you . anything hits the grid triggers the alarm is sent to you phone DAY OR NITE 24/7 one buddy has a remote hooked to a big boom box!! the heron comes in he sets it off and it scares it away. he does this from work. i have caught people here coming in my property with nets, going after my fish i have sent 2 to jail .if you live in the sticks here are a couple you gotta watch close... mink, weasels, otters ... otters are killers if they come in they will kill everything and leave it lay..if you have a creek anywhere close you better take extra steps...dogs do a good job. i use a electric fence around my fence top , a STRONG jolt deters most.... but every once in a while i get a cat, huge coon that manages to get over and does not wanna go back over because of the jolt. cats.. i had a neighbor once... had a big tom caught him in a trap[have a heart] i had words with her she seemed to make countless jokes about my fish and her cat,,, after returning it 3 times before, the 4 time i took a electric barber clipper to the critter shaving all the hair off except a puff around the tail and head to make it look like a lion..i see you a cat lover i dont wann offend you no harm to the cat, giant big persian ...and i didnt return him i let him go... i never had another issue with him......hope this helps to save a few fish...mike
 
Last edited:

sissy

sissy
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
32,626
Reaction score
15,288
Location
Axton virginia
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
7A
Country
United States
Here even though it is rural that is cruelty to animals .To shave that cat and admit it can get you jail time .I have worked with the animal shelters here for years and would be really angry to see someone do this .I have had 2 dogs fall in my pond and all I was worried about was finding the owner and getting their pet back to them and I have also fixed 2 cats that now live here with me and it cost me 180 dollars to do it ,but they are great at getting mice and are now loved and fed .The 1 dog was a boys therapy dog. They do not go near my pond because I have stopped that by training them to stay away .Anyone that can be cruel to animal is not a nice person to me .I wish this lady had contacted the animal shelter and reported this incident to them .I hope you do not do this anymore as it is an offense no matter what you may think .No matter her jokes you should have contacted your local animal shelter and they would have handled it properly .
 
Joined
Jan 2, 2020
Messages
76
Reaction score
21
Location
outside st.louis mo
Country
United States
i do apologize the neighbor in question is still a good friend, she even thanked me for getting all the heavy nat. out .ive never heard that before . and was never meant to be cruel in any. way... i could of easly put it down or like you say to shelter that would do the same thats why i returned it to her several times.5 years ago she came back over with the cat,, its fur was matted bad again ,asking for a free shave .. all is good.
 
Joined
Dec 16, 2017
Messages
3,553
Reaction score
3,051
Location
Ct
Hardiness Zone
6b
Country
United States
i took a electric barber clipper to the critter shaving all the hair off except a puff around the tail and head to make it look like a lion..
[/QUOTE]

I knew i liked this guy.
I had a job we were working on years ago had heavy equipment running all over the place and construction activities all around it was no place for a Black lab .... Now i love dogs .. I like them better then most people .... but this pooch was in serious danger of getting hurt . he'd come by at break times and he was a great dog but i asked and even bought a run for the woman who owned him but the dog kept coming by and the third time was one to many i was afraid the labby was going to get hurt. so i walked up to the painter who was on site and i took his roller and put a nice white stripe down his tail. NEVER SAW THE LABBY AGAIN i did miss him but at least he was safe
 

sissy

sissy
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
32,626
Reaction score
15,288
Location
Axton virginia
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
7A
Country
United States
some one may have been feeding him at the sight also ,But you no matter what should not admit any where what you did .I have seen a couple of cases in court here and the judges hand down fines and community service for such acts of cruelty .I understand that parents of animals do not think sometimes but cruelty is cruelty in the eyes of a judge if you are caught .Just like owners can be held responsible for damages their pets do .These stray cats are chipped and if they do bad I get held responsible .I got a visit from animal control that said I was not feeding the cats or providing shelter for them .They were skin and bones .The officer knew better but wanted to let me know .Not sure where the bones are .Maybe they saw my cat I built.I call him sad cat
100_8822.JPG
100_8631.JPG
 
Ad

Advertisements

Joined
Oct 28, 2013
Messages
9,832
Reaction score
10,350
Location
Northern IL
Showcase(s):
1
most bog owners grow water gardens not koi. most will experience a foul rotten egg smell from such ponds, from the bacteria trying to keep up with a fish load most have a backyard full of mosquitoes
Hmmm...
 

mrsclem

mrsclem
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
3,860
Reaction score
3,433
Location
st. mary's county, md.
Hardiness Zone
7A
Country
United States
Guess I'm an exception to that! Had a bog on my koi pond for many years with no bad smell. Only problem I have is plants not doing well if I sell off some of my koi!
 
Joined
Jan 2, 2020
Messages
76
Reaction score
21
Location
outside st.louis mo
Country
United States
Guess I'm an exception to that! Had a bog on my koi pond for many years with no bad smell. Only problem I have is plants not doing well if I sell off some of my koi!
ill try to help on the plants, the PH try keeping it around 7 if possible, and salt you gotta watch the salt if added to a pond it stays must be removed by hand.. hope this helps
 
Ad

Advertisements

Joined
Dec 16, 2017
Messages
3,553
Reaction score
3,051
Location
Ct
Hardiness Zone
6b
Country
United States
I'll speak up Lisa. Mike from what i have seen with a lot of these bog projects is less adequate in my eyes. HOWEVER.....when it is done right and with good custodial practices it not only works, but everything thrives. I do not have long term history of my own but after the lengthy research that i did do showed that not only can it work but it can work far better then MAN made technology. The only thing people who have successful bogs and bogs have usually is a pump that runs 24/7 maybe an air stone. In the green scene it's a home run compared to the traditional koi filters power consumption is off the scale. Mother nature has restored areas in relatively short spans of time the most nasty of chemicals we have dumped. All too many times are solution is to encapsulate the area . Mother nature doesn't have that choice and she has all the plants and bacteria to do the job. All i can say is go to you tube and watch "the most beautiful back yards " or any host of videos by aquascapes and others as they show ponds that are 20 years old and look amazing. with huge koi. Now yes i understand if i want pristine koi without a scratch on them or had never lost a scale due to rubbing against a boulder. i would look at the rubber as the finish product or a fiberglass or concrete pool . That to me does not fit my taste or idea of beauty "in my back yard" I do love the picture window raised ponds where the fish look back at you through polished water. but again not in my back yard. People told me you can have a waterfall in an open tank.. i proved that wrong ... people said you can't have birds above a fish tank they will pollute the water and they will drown ... proved that wrong ... they said you can't bread birds above a open top fish tank ... proved that wrong " all to well had way to many babies" I look at it this way you give nature a chance she is very resourceful " Nature will find a way" I know addy and lisa both can show that not only do bogs work they are amazing beautiful without the use of 1,000.00 in mechanical filters. As far as mosquitoes are concerned if you have a stagnant pond no movement no fish the odds are yes it will help to fed the fire. How ever this i can speak for my water is constantly flowing and the mosquitoes may show them selves for a short period of time but the dragon flies take care of that. mosquito larvae i do not see much of the black flies is another story but between the birds and the dragon fly larva they don't stand a chance. Old school bog filtration did not work the best but talk to any biologist wo over see's waste treatment plants and they will probably change or at least open your eyes to Natural filtration
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Similar Threads

Howdy from Texas 10
Howdy from Oklahoma 19
Howdy From AR! UNIQUE POND!!! 22
howdy from Jersey 10
Howdy from Cascadia! 6
Howdy Everyone 21
New to the fourm 10
glad to have found this fourm 21

Top