New waterfall and stream build


Ad

Advertisements

addy1

water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins
Moderator
Donor
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
43,220
Reaction score
27,734
Location
Frederick, Maryland
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
6b
Country
United States
Welcome to the forum!

You have a beautiful area to build something.
 
Joined
Sep 30, 2022
Messages
23
Reaction score
14
Country
New Zealand
Yeah I imagine a gravel filled reservoir is essentially the same thing but not really if you use aquablocks? I also imagine a raised bog or one at least at the beginning of the system is easier to clean!

Would the raised bog at the beginning still work well if you were only piping half or less of the water to the bottom of it and dumping the rest on top?
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2022
Messages
70
Reaction score
36
Location
franklin Va
Hardiness Zone
7b
Country
United States
They’re typically different things. Bog is full of media to provide surface area for bio filtration. Reservoir is empty space for capturing as much water as possible.
He was right they are differences a bog maxes bio where a reservoir max water held (plus your water in motion). I don't know why I did not understand that my brain was stuck in the bog guess.

The Pond Advisor sums it up nicely here. If you are planning a pond with fish later (when safe) may be adding it now might be better. May be you wont dirtied plants or your sweet angle drops a snack in the water. May be mid summer the water lever is low and very little gravel is wet. May be after the big game you and your buds are out having a laugh and someone adds water to your stream. :LOL:

Adding bio mass to the tub you posted might be all you need for now just plan for what you will end with.

I don't know where I hear it but it stuck with me plan out the size of pond you like then double it. We all love to add something.
 
Joined
Sep 30, 2022
Messages
23
Reaction score
14
Country
New Zealand
Hi guys, bit of an update and a couple questions!

I now have:
  • 4750 GPH (18,000 LPH) pump
  • 2 inch (50mm) flexible PVC tubing
  • Bulkhead for spillway, non-return valve, ball valve for adjusting flow, hosetails, clamps, thread tape, etc
  • Enough geotextile to cover the whole thing under and over the liner
  • 1mm EPDM liner
  • A heavy duty outdoor bin as a pump vault
  • The tapered storage container I posted earlier as a spillway
  • Expanding foam (standard) and some spray paint to hide it if needed (the black stuff is very pricey here)
  • A bridge :)
  • Loads of lava rock
The last thing I have to get is the structure for the reservoir. Aquablocks are pricey as here so I am thinking 2 plastic pallets, then some cinder block pillars, then 2 more plastic pallets. Could do all of that for like $40 or less. Thoughts?
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2022
Messages
70
Reaction score
36
Location
franklin Va
Hardiness Zone
7b
Country
United States
Maybe but the rating of the pallets is a factor. you can't use the over all rating it has to be calculated down to the foot print of the pillars. plastic is not ridge enough to evenly disperse the weight but more pillars would. Sorry for the math homework.

Only other thing is there are high pressure and low pressure one way valves or non-return valve. I prefer to just to drill a hole in the pipe 1/4in / 6 mm hole that will let in air if the pump stops. but still sprays where the water is going. but then again almost all of the water from you pump is "water in motion" how much is really added by getting a back feed or siphon from the spill way?
 
Ad

Advertisements

Joined
Sep 30, 2022
Messages
23
Reaction score
14
Country
New Zealand
Thanks. The one way valve is this one: https://www.boat.net.nz/products/non-return-valve-inline?variant=22989746929749

Looks like a low pressure one to me as is for bilge pumps, etc.

The pallets I am looking at are 1 ton rated and 4x4 ft. Was thinking of doing 4 corner pillars and one in the centre. I am not planning on putting many large rocks over them, and I am using lava rock too which is fairly light comparatively?
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2022
Messages
70
Reaction score
36
Location
franklin Va
Hardiness Zone
7b
Country
United States
That one way valve looks like it based off a ball or some thing blocking the flow back. This some thing must also slow to volume of water. I did not see how much it adds to the Total Dynamic Head.

4x4 is 2304 square inch or little over 1 psi. Cinder blocks here are 8x8x16 going with the bigger side that's 128sq in (not hole side up) times that by 5 is 640 by the 1 psi is no more then 640 pounds of rock and blocks at 38lb per cinder block.
 
Joined
Sep 30, 2022
Messages
23
Reaction score
14
Country
New Zealand
That one way valve looks like it based off a ball or some thing blocking the flow back. This some thing must also slow to volume of water. I did not see how much it adds to the Total Dynamic Head.

4x4 is 2304 square inch or little over 1 psi. Cinder blocks here are 8x8x16 going with the bigger side that's 128sq in (not hole side up) times that by 5 is 640 by the 1 psi is no more then 640 pounds of rock and blocks at 38lb per cinder block.
Thanks! The one way valve has a spring loaded disc in it, it it pretty easy to push but it also is a fair bit narrower than the 2 inch hose where the valve is. If it's not ideal I wont use it. How necessary is it to have a one way valve in a pondless waterfall? Does it matter if the water comes back down the pipe if the pump is quite deep?

Regarding the cinder blocks, I could get some more. Or I could just fill the whole reservoir with stacked pallets, but figured I'd get more void space if I used the blocks? Have attached a pic of the pallets I'm looking at and the cinder blocks I have. The pallets do have quite a lot of void space. Would the cinder blocks with the cross brace be best for extra strength? As mentioned I'm not going to add lots of large rocks but they will be covered by pebbles and some lava rocks.
 

Attachments

  • 1860216460.jpg
    1860216460.jpg
    133 KB · Views: 4
  • Screenshot 2022-11-10 190905.png
    Screenshot 2022-11-10 190905.png
    44.8 KB · Views: 4
Joined
Sep 28, 2022
Messages
70
Reaction score
36
Location
franklin Va
Hardiness Zone
7b
Country
United States
Aqua blocks support 5472lb per square foot your pallets are about 125lb per square foot so lots of big rock might be a problem. I keep looking at the 4 "thin" spots in the center thinking that is the weak points. If it fails rocks/children may fall in to your void space or held by the next one. I really don't know what would be best with or with out the blocks but limiting the amount of rocks to the load capacity I feel is the key to success

If this was my project I think I would not use cinder blocks and only just enough rocks to hide the pallets and have plenty of strength left for kids to jump/play in the water with out any fear of collapse.

Ask you self how much water will the value hold back will that amount of water be a problem flowing back? I Don't think so because a reservoir has to hold all the water of the feature when power is off.
 

YShahar

Enthusiastic duct-tape engineer
Joined
Feb 4, 2022
Messages
532
Reaction score
993
Showcase(s):
1
Country
Israel
If Aquablocks are too pricey, milk crates will do the job. That's what I used, and they've held up well.
 
Ad

Advertisements

Joined
Dec 16, 2017
Messages
10,043
Reaction score
7,944
Location
Ct
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
6b
Country
United States
  • Expanding foam (standard) and some spray paint to hide it if needed (the black stuff is very pricey here)
  • A bridge :)
  • Loads of lava rock
The last thing I have to get is the structure for the reservoir. Aquablocks are pricey as here so I am thinking 2 plastic pallets, then some cinder block pillars, then 2 more plastic pallets. Could do all of that for like $40 or less. Thoughts?
Spray foam white black or tan all that I have used and I have used at least a dozen brands all seem to fade and loose their color.
I suggest a couple minutes after the foam is applied that you throw sand or rock dust or pea gravel so that they stick to the foam . And you won't need to worry about color.
To save 40 dollars over going with aqua blocks is a no Brainer to me . I'd use the aqua blocks for years of trouble free operation
 
Joined
Dec 16, 2017
Messages
10,043
Reaction score
7,944
Location
Ct
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
6b
Country
United States
The disadvantage to milk crates is the only thing
that keeps them from falling apart under weight is that they sit along the edge. There's just a small lip that keeps them from colapsing. There is no center wall. But regardless of which I'd use I also take zip ties along the outside perimeter tying them all together
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 30, 2022
Messages
23
Reaction score
14
Country
New Zealand
Thanks guys. To be clear, I wouldn't be saving $40, the total for the pallets would be $40. Branded aquablocks are pricey here but there are "drainage modules" which are the same thing but don't attract the fishpond premium. I can get these things with the same specs as aquablocks for $45 NZ ($27 US) each


To fill my reservoir I would need to spend a few hundred bucks.

Milk crates here have 2 very low sides so are not ideal I don't think?

1668122576555.png


Another option could just be to fill the reservoir with the pallets (6 of them), zip tie them together and then put any larger rocks on fibre cement panels to distribute their weight a bit?
 
Joined
Dec 16, 2017
Messages
10,043
Reaction score
7,944
Location
Ct
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
6b
Country
United States
aZEK IS ANOTHER PRODUCT TO HELP DISBURSE THE WEIGHT WHILE UNEFFECTED BY WATER. Also once the spacing material is berried be it aquablocks galvanized pipe or milk crates as soil is placed on them the individual weight is spread out per sf in other words a culvert pipe with 6" or gravel over it can support a car but not a truck. but make that a foot or a foot and a half of fill over the culvert and you can surly drive over the culvert with not only a truck but one carrying a load
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2022
Messages
70
Reaction score
36
Location
franklin Va
Hardiness Zone
7b
Country
United States
I think the six pallets with limited rocks is the safest, cheapest option.

The larger rocks in bog builds are set in an irregular pattern around the square form to help break up the shape.
 
Ad

Advertisements

Joined
Sep 30, 2022
Messages
23
Reaction score
14
Country
New Zealand
Thanks again! I actually have some rubber gym matting which is easy to cut to size so could use that to help disperse the weight on top but yeah will not use a lot of large rocks and the lava rock I have is definitely lighter than most rock.

I'm not sure if the pallets have the same void % as aqua blocks which I think are 95%. Just trying to figure out how many I need/how deep a hole I need to dig to get the right volume if the pallets are in there. I'd guesstimate at least 80%

I saw a youtube video of a boulder being craned on to a plastic pallet as a test and they seemed surprisingly strong!
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2020
Messages
2,219
Reaction score
2,058
Location
Pacific NW
Hardiness Zone
8b
Country
United States
I saw a youtube video of a boulder being craned on to a plastic pallet as a test and they seemed surprisingly strong!

I've seen a video of some yokel with a purple excavator setting a boulder on milk crates. Also surprisingly strong! Those were American crates though—cubic shape.
 
Joined
Sep 30, 2022
Messages
23
Reaction score
14
Country
New Zealand
I've seen a video of some yokel with a purple excavator setting a boulder on milk crates. Also surprisingly strong! Those were American crates though—cubic shape.
Yes I've seen that too :) Have you heard of anyone using something like these steel cage pallets? Would turn it upside down and prob put a plastic one on top. I guess concern might be that soil shifting could start pushing the liner in but could put panels down the sides???

1668138210964.png


There are also these cages for storing firewood, etc which can be picked up cheap

1668138555856.png


Definitely got a great void%!
 
Ad

Advertisements

Jhn

Joined
Jul 3, 2017
Messages
2,016
Reaction score
2,058
Location
Maryland
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
7b
Country
United States
Wouldn’t use steel for the sharp edges and any rusting/corroding that will occur, if any liner or or overlay gets against it and the ground shifts could easily cut through any protective overlay and liner. also wouldn’t use any type of galvanized steel as it is toxic to fish long term.
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top