Newbie to ponds

Discussion in 'Newbies to Garden Ponds' started by Sams1989, Sep 24, 2017.

  1. Sams1989

    Sams1989

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    Hi guys
    I plan to make a raised bed pond approx 7ft long by 4/5ft wide by 2/3ft high, here is my issues, I would like to have 1/2ft into the ground as well as the 2/3ft raised frame, do I need to somehow support the frame ? Was going to make it like a stud wall but with 4x8 and finish the outer with deck board, fixed together with 120mm timberlok screws countersunk and capped.

    Like I say my main concern is am I ok to put the framework around a 2ft deep hole, could I leave a ledge for the frame to sit on ?

    Thanks and sorry if my question sounds bizarre.
     
    Sams1989, Sep 24, 2017
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  2. Sams1989

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    You will need to pour a footing for the wall.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Sep 24, 2017
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  3. Sams1989

    audioenvy

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    As Meyer stated, if you're going to have a wall you will want to do a concrete ring footer, something like this:

    IMG_5150.JPG

    IMG_5166.JPG
    IMG_5189.JPG
     
    audioenvy, Sep 24, 2017
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  4. Sams1989

    Sams1989

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    Thanks guys it's not going to be a wall, its just making the depth deeper with the raised frame around it, I was leaving around half a foot from the raised frame to the hole was thinking I could do without footings, it will be resting on the ground with a 1/2 foot ledge from frame to hole.
     
    Sams1989, Sep 24, 2017
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  5. Sams1989

    Gemma

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    welcome2.gif
    I'm looking to build something similar to what you described, good luck, and hopefully you will post your journey from start to finish!

    eta: I still think you need footings!
     
    Gemma, Sep 24, 2017
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  6. Sams1989

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    Welcome to our group!. Mine is in the ground so can't help with your ??.
     
    addy1, Sep 24, 2017
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  7. Sams1989

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    A wooden wall must be anchored in some fashion or it will "walk" over time.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Sep 24, 2017
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  8. Sams1989

    j.w I Love my Goldies

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    j.w, Sep 24, 2017
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  9. Sams1989

    CometKeith

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    Hi and Welcome! I don't think a 2x4 wall will be stable with the pressure of the water against it. Obviously if someone did the engineering they could tell you, but I have done concrete work and typically 2x4 walls need to be kicked to keep them from buckling if there is a lot of pressure against it. The bottom of the wall will have more pressure against it than the top. I'm guessing somewhere 150-200 lbs per square foot close to the bottom of a 2-3 ft high wall. Maybe build your wall before setting it in the pond and prop it up on the ends and try standing on it if you weigh around that much. I doubt it will hold you. Also if it is not perfectly level this will create more problems so a footing makes sense to do as well.
     
    CometKeith, Sep 25, 2017
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  10. Sams1989

    j.w I Love my Goldies

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    Am I understanding this right? I thought the part out of the ground was not going to be very high. Only 1/2 ft high above the edge of pond? Or is it going to be 2 to 3 ft above the ground level? I am confused.
     
    j.w, Sep 25, 2017
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  11. Sams1989

    audioenvy

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    I interpreted the following:

    " I would like to have 1/2ft into the ground as well as the 2/3ft raised frame"

    to mean:

    "I would like to have 1 to 2 feet into the ground as well as 2 to 3 feet raised frame"

    So if I read that right we are talking about up to 5 feet of water. If that's the case you're really going to want a cement collar (footing) that you can use to both support the wall above ground and also help stabilize the wall below ground. Also, two-to-three feet of water is going to put a LOT of lateral pressure on the walls.
     
    audioenvy, Sep 25, 2017
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  12. Sams1989

    Sams1989

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    It's going to be 2ft above ground level and 1/2 foot below ground with a ledge of around half a foot from the framework to the hole, I was actually thinking of using metal spikes to secure the framework would this work ??
     
    Sams1989, Sep 25, 2017
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  13. Sams1989

    IPA

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    Welcome, there are lots of above ground pond kits available, I don't know how extensive the framing is on them. @MoonShadows has one, maybe can offer some insight.
    @Faebinder , do you have any insight?
     
    IPA, Sep 25, 2017
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  14. Sams1989

    Sams1989

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    I'm struggling to understand what the difference is that if you just have a raised pond you don't need footings but if you have sunken and raised you need footings ?
     
    Sams1989, Sep 25, 2017
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  15. Sams1989

    MoonShadows The Jam Man

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    The framing around my 425 gallon pond is made from redwood 2x3's with interlocking notches at the ends (think log cabin). Below is a pic before I attached the 3 benches. The pond is about 6' wide and 30" deep. The lack of heavy duty framing, I believe, has to do with the fact that it is a hexagon...pulling evenly in all 6 directions. Of course as variables change...the shape of a pond....the water volume...the length the sides...the size of the frame needs to be able to accommodate all these.

    008-Apr_15.jpg
     
    MoonShadows, Sep 25, 2017
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  16. Sams1989

    Sams1989

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    I just wanted a pond that is 1ft or 2ft deep below ground but also 2ft or 3ft above ground, is there a way to do this without the need for footings and foundations.
     
    Sams1989, Sep 25, 2017
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  17. Sams1989

    brokensword Not all those who wander are lost

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    Maybe build it with solid 4x4 or 6x6 timber and tie it all together with rerod? I'm assuming you're using a liner? Seems if you tie the top well to the buried portion that there won't be any walking. JMHO

    That said, you're already digging down and it's not that hard to put in a footing. Research working with concrete/footings and see if it's not doable for you. Would give the most peace of mind, I think.
     
    brokensword, Sep 25, 2017
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  18. Sams1989

    mrsclem mrsclem

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    This is the pond we built 6 years ago. It is 10'x10' and 5' deep. It is on a slope with one side 3' below grade and back wall at grade. 2x12 lumber used with 4x4 posts set in concrete. The walls have bowed out some but less than 6". 015.JPG
     
    mrsclem, Sep 25, 2017
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  19. Sams1989

    Sams1989

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    I know how to do footings and concrete it's just where I live I have no rear access to my garden and my missus wouldn't appreciate me carrying bags of cement through the house that's the only reason why I was thinking of a cleaner way without footings and foundations, might just stick with a raised bed and go to maybe 4ft high, only wanted it in the ground aswell as where I live gets very cold in the winter.

    Sam
     
    Sams1989, Sep 25, 2017
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  20. Sams1989

    mrsclem mrsclem

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    I did not pour a footing for ours, just concrete to anchor the posts.
     
    mrsclem, Sep 25, 2017
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