Noob questions! Bottom Drain? Realistic Costs?

[supermin082]

Hi all! I am in the preliminary stages of planning a Koi pond for my backyard and had a few questions. I've heard so many different answers, but would like some more advice before I start a life-long hobby.

Setup- I've heard 1500 Gallons is the best way to go (minimum) for having Koi, so lets say I am doing an 8x10 or a 10x12 (1500-2000Gallon pond) I AM NOT HANDY AT ALL! I WILL MESS THINGS UP! But I still want to do it myself, a man's got to learn at some point.

Question 1- I need a bottom drain. Everything I've read says to absolutely install a bottom drain because it will save headache of maintenance in the future. Can I use a bottom drain with the plumbing running to a waterfall filter? I keep seeing pictures of huge drums and water filtering through them. I do not have space in my yard to dig a pond and a structure to hold drums and pipes, etc. etc.

Perfect world for me - Dig a pond, ONLY have to install a bottom drain, a waterfall filter, and a pump. Is that possible?

Question 2- Best link for DIY'ers like myself? Step by step instructions on how to dig, install, etc? I've done hours and hours of research of the internet, im sure im missing some sites that are very helpful. Ideas on how to plan the looks of the pond too.

Question 3- Realistic monthly cost of maintaining a pond of this size, electrical, fish food, etc. etc.

Question 4- Best place to purchase all the required pump,waterfall filter, fish, etc. for the least amount of money. (I understand you get what you pay for, but some places upcharge a LOT on their products.)

Question 5- Any last words of wisdom? I've got the utility companies coming out in 2 days to mark where my underground lines are so I dont fry myself.

Thanks so much for the help! I plan on taking pictures throughout so you can see how it turns out. I'm very excited!

 

[addy1]

Hi all! I am in the preliminary stages of planning a Koi pond for my backyard and had a few questions. I've heard so many different answers, but would like some more advice before I start a life-long hobby.

Setup- I've heard 1500 Gallons is the best way to go (minimum) for having Koi, so lets say I am doing an 8x10 or a 10x12 (1500-2000Gallon pond) I AM NOT HANDY AT ALL! I WILL MESS THINGS UP! But I still want to do it myself, a man's got to learn at some point.

Question 1- I need a bottom drain. Everything I've read says to absolutely install a bottom drain because it will save headache of maintenance in the future. Can I use a bottom drain with the plumbing running to a waterfall filter? I keep seeing pictures of huge drums and water filtering through them. I do not have space in my yard to dig a pond and a structure to hold drums and pipes, etc. etc.

Perfect world for me - Dig a pond, ONLY have to install a bottom drain, a waterfall filter, and a pump. Is that possible?
>>>>>>>>>>> if you really want koi, you need good filtration and a bottom drain will help

Question 2- Best link for DIY'ers like myself? Step by step instructions on how to dig, install, etc? I've done hours and hours of research of the internet, im sure im missing some sites that are very helpful. Ideas on how to plan the looks of the pond too.

>>>>>>>>>>.the diy postings on this forum and the construction threads, a lot of great ponds and how they built them

Question 3- Realistic monthly cost of maintaining a pond of this size, electrical, fish food, etc. etc.

>>>>>>>>>>>mine does not cost much, but I don't do uv lights or large pumps

Question 4- Best place to purchase all the required pump,waterfall filter, fish, etc. for the least amount of money. (I understand you get what you pay for, but some places upcharge a LOT on their products.)

>>>>>>>>> there are a couple vendors on this site that sale the equipment at a decent price

Question 5- Any last words of wisdom? I've got the utility companies coming out in 2 days to mark where my underground lines are so I dont fry myself.

>>>>>>>>Really plan before you start digging, do not buy your liner until you are done digging.

Thanks so much for the help! I plan on taking pictures throughout so you can see how it turns out. I'm very excited!

and welcome to our group everybody will try to help you get a great pond built

 

[taherrmann4]

First welcome to the forum.

Now on to your questions; as far as size goes I would go as big as you can with space and keeping your financials in check, a lot of people often wish they had gone bigger. I would go a minimum of 3' deep in your area if you can go 4' I would.

Question 1: If I could do it over again I would install a Bottom Drain, it will help keep the bottom of the pond cleaner.

Question 2: There is a DIY section here on this forum.

Question 3: My pump may cost me anywhere from $15-$30 not really sure, I didn't notice it affect my electric bill much. I only run a pump and an aerator.

Question 4: Check around on the internet and see who has the best price for what you are looking for, all my stuff was purchased this way, even my liner but they were local so I was able to go pick it up and avoid shipping charge.

Question 5: Plan Plan Plan. Be sure you have your design in mind and ask don't be afraid to ask others to look at it, they may see something or an obstacle that you may never have seen or thought of. There are different type of designs, do you want one that fits in with the surroundings and looks natural or are you going for another look?

You can do this project without being real handy however it will challenge you at time, don't be afraid to ask us questions as we can try to answer them. You may get 2 or even 3 different answers doesn't make one right or wrong it is just what may have worked for us. If you are going to have fish you will need some sort of filter, you mention the barrel type, find a way to make this work into your landscaping and pond as you will need one or two of these depending on the size of the pond you end up with.

Good luck and welcome to the best pond forum..

 

[CliffandJoann]

Congratulations on doing enough research to know how important a bottom
drain is to a large koi pond.
I only know our DIY system, it's a bottom drain gravity fed system.
we used three 35 gallon rubbermaid tubs (we built our pond in 1997,
since then there are stronger tubs available) the tubs are daisy chained
together with toilet flanges... we started out with two tubs in 1997, and the following
year added a third tub, as well as enlarging the pond and adding a 200 gallon
biological pond, and a skimmer for use in spring and fall...

My point being, that they're are a lot of changes you can make along the way,( except
for a through the liner bottom drain,) thus starting off with the BD is the single most
important thing you can do for your pond.

If you dig a shelf all around the pond, about 15" deep x 12" wide and rock it all the way
up, you'll have a very natural looking pond with no liner showing along the edge.
the rocks are also easily moved to accomodate pots and bare root plants.

We have several inexpensive pumps from 500 to 700 gph. as well as four 250 gph pumps
purchased on harbor frieght for 9.99 each. The fish love all the mini waterfalls,
and the pumps are inexpensive to run... we usually only run two small pumps in the pond
and one in the biological pond,

Koi like to swim, so keep in mind a long swimming span in the pond will produce happy fish.

Lay out your pond with a water hose, and look at it from the patio/deck and house...
too close to a deck for instance, would not be good for optimum viewing from the entire
deck or viewing from the house as well... you want to be able to view the pond without
getting up and hanging over the rail to see the entire pond.

Have a deep section, at least 3 1/2 feet for your zone.

Good luck, I'll get some diagrams for you of our inexpensive DIY gravity fed system.

 

[CliffandJoann]

This is how we started off in 1997, with a kidney shaped pond, about 10 wide x 18 feet
long, with shelves all around and three rubbermaid tubs daisy chained together. It's a gravity fed system.
The beauty of this system is you can add more tubs if needed, we added a 200 gallon biological pond the following year.
We also have a beach section (on the left)

But not to get to much into the weeds in regard to the bio pond,
this is where we were the first year.

my rough drawing

this is a drawing an artist friend did for me, complete with our real koi.

 

[supermin082]

Thanks very much for the quick responses! I guess I should rephrase one of the questions:

Could I run the piping going from the bottom drain straight to the waterfall filter? Or from the Bottom Drain, to the skimmer, then from the skimmer to the waterfall filter? I want to avoid having to set up 3 Tubs at all costs if I can. I would only like to have to dig a pond and nothing else in my yard. Thanks again!

 

[addy1]

You could, you can actually set it up in any method you want. But it may not work well. Are you thinking of having the pump in the waterfall weir? How big will that be, your filter area won't be very large. I would not think you would want to connect the bottom drain to the skimmer, you should have two pipes one for the bd one for the skimmer then to the pump.

 

[CliffandJoann]

You can make only one bigger tub ... the tub should be big enough to divide into departments
with various filter materials to catch all the fish waste before the water re-entering the pond...
with the gravity fed system, there is no worry of having an accident and emptying the pond.
the filter system and pond are at the same level.
Maybe someone else can explain this better than me.

 

[KennethO]

Hello.

Without a pump between the bottom drain and waterfall filter, the drain will not work. A bottom drain has to be gravity fed(filter even with or below the water line) or pump fed(pump between bottom drain and filter). Since the waterfall filter/box is above the water level, your stuck with pump fed.

Since this is a koi pond, unless you have a large waterfall box, it will not be enough once they get bigger. I would suggest a koiguy type skippyfilter instead of a waterfall filter if you have limited space. They can easilly be hidden and used as waterfall boxes.They are large enough to provide proper filtration too.

I took a Kill-A-Watt meter to the pumps last fall. My air pump was a whole 10 cents a month, the pumps were about 9 bucks each, we run 3. You can calculate the cost yourself.

Its pretty inexpensive. BUT what you'll want to consider is the personal time spent. Expect an hour or so a week spent in maintinance, feeding and plant care. I personally don't mind it since its rather relaxing playing with the fish while your doing it.

You can use 55gal drum filters, you just have to get a little more creative. Try placing them in a 3' hole and making a false floor over them, then place a potted plant on it, you can use a draping plant so cover it better. If it rains a lot there, place it a few inches above ground to prevent ground water from draining in it.

 

[koiguy1969]

myself i dont use a bottom drain. i use a submersable pump that sits on shelve 1' under the waters surface right by my waterfall. this allows me less than 1' of head. from the pump to the filter. and i have 1&1/4" tubing from the pump to the filter and from the prepump solids filters to the pump. the prefilters sit on the floor of the pond in the lowest areas and draw from the bottom like a bottom drain. the submersable pumps, and flex tubing let you keep all your plumbing inside the pond and easily remove it for the winter season. this means you dont have to worry about frost lines and plumbing problems due to frozen / bursted pipes.. i put 1200gph thru a 70 gal stocktank filter. (diy)...the filter sets in a mound of dirt from the pond dig. my pond is 1200 gals.
directions for filter build: http://www.gardenpon...y-style-filter/ .

 

[Shdwdrgn]

I took a huge number of pictures this Spring when I started building my pond. My layout consists of a waterfall with a 55-gal barrel filter on either side, dropping into an 8x14 pear-shaped main pond. This feeds into a river, which ends in a small pond about 3' in diameter. A bottom drain did not figure into my layout, however I had plans to include dojo loaches, which are supposed to be very good at sifting through debris on the bottom and keeping it turned up.

The construction progressed through the following folders: biofilter, lower, river, upper, waterfall.
http://www.sourpuss.net/projects/pond/2011/construction/

There are options to work with just about any kind of idea you have. Nobody wants a couple of big barrels sitting in the middle of their yard, so you find ways to blend them into your landscape. In my case they frame in and feed the waterfall, and next year I will be adding tall grasses and vines to climb up and around the barrels so each one looks like a hill of plants. If you don't want a waterfall, or plan on a low-height waterfall, you can bury the barrels to the height you need. One way or another, you want to incorporate the biggest filtration method that you can, and greatly reduce your chances of overloading the pond when the fish start to spawn.

Laying down the rubber liner isn't too hard, as long as you have extra hands. Just take it very slowly, get it centered right in the bottom, and use the weight of the water to pull it down tight into the hole. Turn off the hose when the water gets to each shelf, pull the rubber tight where needed, and fold it over as appropriate, then start filling again.

One thing that I completely forgot to plan for is shown in CliffandJoann's picture above... Consider how you want your edging down around the pond. If I could change mine, I would have dug a 30-degree slope on the banks of the shallow areas (especially the river). I have a flat shelf around the edge with 8" river rocks lining the shelf, and when the dogs step up to get a drink, the rocks tend to want to slide. If I had dug back further and at an angle, I could have stacked up rocks from the bottom of the shelf to the edge of the pond, and they wouldn't have been prone to moving.