Not a fish, but a turtle question!

[reefsr]

Hello. I live in southern Michigan and our winters get pretty nasty. This winter there was 5 inches of ice and 6 inches of snow on top of that ice. Pond is, what, 2ft deep max? It's about 500 gallons. Are there any turtles that could live in that? Thanks.

 

[Jhn]

I believe @brokensword lives up your way and keeps turtles.

No matter where you live, the pond surface can’t freeze solid, much less the pond itself....whether it be a pond breather, aerator, or floating pond deicer, , something is needed for gas exchange. The pond itself is big enough for a turtle, as long as it has a place to winter over ie under a log or a cave between rocks, like it would in nature.....the pond having 6” of ice is that typical For your winters?

I keep turtles as well but live in zone 7a/b in Maryland, the turtles stay outside year round in a 3.5’ deep large pond and have done so for over 20 years. In some of my above ground tubs I have had ice about 1’ thick( no turtles stay in there) and even my large pond has had over 6” of ice, and the turtles have been fine....although recently it hasn’t had hardly any ice during the past few winters.

 

[reefsr]

I believe @brokensword lives up your way and keeps turtles.

No matter where you live, the pond surface can’t freeze solid, much less the pond itself....whether it be a pond breather, aerator, or floating pond deicer, , something is needed for gas exchange. The pond itself is big enough for a turtle, as long as it has a place to winter over ie under a log or a cave between rocks, like it would in nature.....the pond having 6” of ice is that typical For your winters?

I keep turtles as well but live in zone 7a/b in Maryland, the turtles stay outside year round in a 3.5’ deep large pond and have done so for over 20 years. In some of my above ground tubs I have had ice about 1’ thick( no turtles stay in there) and even my large pond has had over 6” of ice, and the turtles have been fine....although recently it hasn’t had hardly any ice during the past few winters.

Thanks for the quick reply! Yes, 6" of ice is pretty typical here. Would most native species do okay in my pond then? For example, a musk turtle?

 

[brokensword]

Thanks for the quick reply! Yes, 6" of ice is pretty typical here. Would most native species do okay in my pond then? For example, a musk turtle?

I'm in SE Michigan too and I'd actually say 6" of ice is on the thin side. It's actually been this way more so in the last 20 years but I can easily remember getting 10+ many times.

Re turtles; I keep painteds and because they tend to be smaller and I don't have any 'mud/substrate' on my pond bottom, have lost a few overwintering in the pond, so now I keep them in the basement in their own pool-pond until spring. No losses now for the last 4 years this way. As they get fully mature and I add something for them to brumate in, I'll begin keeping them year-round in the pond.

Here's a nice article re musk turtles MUSK TURTLE CARE; seems to spell out the conditions you'd need. Someday, I might even get one myself, but been looking out for what @Jhn has--diamondbacks. Really pricey currently so will keep my eye out for a rescue.

I have goldfish and koi and so far (one of the reasons I start the turtles small) haven't had any harassment issues. Some predation on the plant life but I have a lot so not an issue.

Hope this helps.

 

[reefsr]

I'm in SE Michigan too and I'd actually say 6" of ice is on the thin side. It's actually been this way more so in the last 20 years but I can easily remember getting 10+ many times.

Re turtles; I keep painteds and because they tend to be smaller and I don't have any 'mud/substrate' on my pond bottom, have lost a few overwintering in the pond, so now I keep them in the basement in their own pool-pond until spring. No losses now for the last 4 years this way. As they get fully mature and I add something for them to brumate in, I'll begin keeping them year-round in the pond.

Here's a nice article re musk turtles MUSK TURTLE CARE; seems to spell out the conditions you'd need. Someday, I might even get one myself, but been looking out for what @Jhn has--diamondbacks. Really pricey currently so will keep my eye out for a rescue.

I have goldfish and koi and so far (one of the reasons I start the turtles small) haven't had any harassment issues. Some predation on the plant life but I have a lot so not an issue.

Hope this helps.

Thanks so much, this really does help! As for the painted turtles, do you think a container filled with mud would let them overwinter here? How deep of a mud layer would you think is sufficient?

 

[brokensword]

Thanks so much, this really does help! As for the painted turtles, do you think a container filled with mud would let them overwinter here? How deep of a mud layer would you think is sufficient?

I'm guessing I'm going to need 6" or so, and an area of a large plastic mortar mixing box (3'x2'x10") I have four painteds so need the space. Hopefully, they'd know where to go as the temps dropped. Ideally, I'd like to have more like half my pond covered but I don't want those type of problems with muddying up the water column--I have koi and they like to dig. That's why I now have a thin layer of pea gravel for them to munch on. I'm also thinking of putting in some cut-in-half clay chimney flues to give a required area, but from what I learned, they use the trapped air in the mud for oxygen during brumation, so this is critical, imo.

 

[reefsr]

I'm guessing I'm going to need 6" or so, and an area of a large plastic mortar mixing box (3'x2'x10") I have four painteds so need the space. Hopefully, they'd know where to go as the temps dropped. Ideally, I'd like to have more like half my pond covered but I don't want those type of problems with muddying up the water column--I have koi and they like to dig. That's why I now have a thin layer of pea gravel for them to munch on. I'm also thinking of putting in some cut-in-half clay chimney flues to give a required area, but from what I learned, they use the trapped air in the mud for oxygen during brumation, so this is critical, imo.

Would you mind expanding upon the chimney flues? Is that to trap air in the mud?

 

[Jhn]

@reefsr ....Chimney flue cut in half creates a small cave for the turtle to brumate in. Turtles, ime don’t necessarily need sand or mud bottoms to brumate in, but they do need places to tuck under and in for the winter, so a traditional liner pond with no rocks or logs in it aren’t ideal for turtles to winter over in. So what I did is add logs/stumps, larger rocks to create areas for them to get under or between for the winter. Some of my turtles winter over in the skimmer in my pond, as well.

My understanding of turtle brumation is they pull oxygen from the pond water through their skin especially their butt, which is another reason why I always leave my pumps running in my ponds year round. This year I didn’t even shut my bog down.

 

[brokensword]

what jhn said...

 

[reefsr]

@reefsr ....Chimney flue cut in half creates a small cave for the turtle to brumate in. Turtles, ime don’t necessarily need sand or mud bottoms to brumate in, but they do need places to tuck under and in for the winter, so a traditional liner pond with no rocks or logs in it aren’t ideal for turtles to winter over in. So what I did is add logs/stumps, larger rocks to create areas for them to get under or between for the winter. Some of my turtles winter over in the skimmer in my pond, as well.

My understanding of turtle brumation is they pull oxygen from the pond water through their skin especially their butt, which is another reason why I always leave my pumps running in my ponds year round. This year I didn’t even shut my bog down.

Thank you!

 

[GBBUDD]

This year I didn’t even shut my bog down.

I believe that is over looked i can't see shutting down the bog for the winter and not provide any o2 or circulation. i know bacteria has it's own rules but even though i shut down water flow all three of my areas the pond and bog have air bladders running throughout the winter , while the cistern has a small water pump keeping the water circulating within it;s self. and i am happy to say all water levels have stayed a constant throughout the winter.