Novellino (newbie) in Italy

Discussion in 'Newbies to Garden Ponds' started by Paul Sabucchi, Jun 10, 2017.

  1. Paul Sabucchi

    Paul Sabucchi

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    Hi, I introduced myself where appropriate. Would appreciate help withsetting up my 1st pond (s).
    I live on a hilltop (1200') within sight of the mediterranean coast, equivalent to zone 9 with summer temp up to 100+ but can snow/freeze hard in winter.
    Tap water is soft (TDS 90 p.p.m., KH 3, pH 7.5). Location is south-facing but in summer shaded part of the day by oak and vines.
    Plan is to have 3 tubs: 1500, 350 and 275 liters (around here they use them for winemaking, arguably a better purpose). The big tub would overflow in the 350 (only one kept about 2/3 full) from where a pump would send it uphill (about 4' head) to the 275 liter from where it would overflow to a stream that runs back to the 1500.
    URL=http://s1108.photobucket.com/user/Paul_Sabucchi/media/20170608_150150_zps73yzbwbv.jpg.html][img width=640 height=480]http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h413/Paul_Sabucchi/20170608_150150_zps73yzbwbv.jpg[/img][/URL]
    I was thinking of keeping just small resilient fish, looking at Turkish killies (Aphanius mento - a little worried if they would be ok in my soft tapwater) or japanese ricefish that are ok in hot mediterranean summers but survive winter freezing (breaking up the surface ice) so very small bioload, hoping some water hyacinth and waterlillies could take care of the waste.
    The time it is going to take me to dig holes for the tubs will probaly allow me to read some pond setup guides
    [img width=640 height=480]http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h413/Paul_Sabucchi/20170609_183636_zpsciczs3p5.jpg[/img]
    But again advice most welcome.
    Ciao
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
    Paul Sabucchi, Jun 10, 2017
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  2. Paul Sabucchi

    MitchM

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    I had difficulties viewing your pictures, Photobucket is not necessary. If you have your pictures in a jpg format on your computer desktop, you can simply drag them into the same text box that you type your replies on this forum.
    Can you give us an idea of what range your water or air temperatures are during a typical year?
    Zone 9 doesn't freeze "hard", so we may need to adjust what agricultural zone we're talking about.
    Are planning on having the tubs set into the ground at all? If so, you can probably keep the system running all year.
    Also, what size water pump were you planning on using?
     
    MitchM, Jun 10, 2017
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  3. Paul Sabucchi

    sissy sissy

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    You say tubs are for wine making so they must be wood and would need sealed and if exposed during winter and summer they will get very cold or very hot .If tubs are buried like you say if they are wood they will rot fast .If they were used for wine making already it may not be good either
     
    sissy, Jun 10, 2017
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  4. Paul Sabucchi

    Paul Sabucchi

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    Hi, the tubs are the plastic ones where the pressed grapes are left to ferment so no sealing required. The big tubs shoud go where the green parasol is. You can just anout see where the top tub is already in place. Ciao 20170609_183636.jpg 20170608_150150.jpg 20170519_143035-1.jpg
     
    Paul Sabucchi, Jun 10, 2017
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  5. Paul Sabucchi

    Paul Sabucchi

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    Hi, thanks for the info. The daytime temperature from june to september is 80-90 with peaks over 100. In winter average temperature is 40-50 with occasional frost or snow (last winter was worse, had a 5 foot snowfall, took a month to melt. All the tubs will be buried to the rim (may need to change my name to Doug Pond). Pump will be what is required -please advise- to provvide enough oxygen (considering the "stream" section should help). Again just looking at small size fish that can stay out all year (will put a cover if required) xmas tree.jpg
     
    Paul Sabucchi, Jun 10, 2017
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  6. Paul Sabucchi

    sissy sissy

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    Then your weather is not bad .I thought you meant the barrels they age wine in which are wood .The only thing is the hosing and what you will be using .Not sure what type that will be there is it going to be exposed or buried
     
    sissy, Jun 10, 2017
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  7. Paul Sabucchi

    Paul Sabucchi

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    I was thinking of using the black semi-rigid plastic all-weather pipe used for irrigation, it will be mostly buried and can insulate the bits that are not. As with ponds I am at the bottom of the learning curve I would like to keep it simple, so do a low-tech undemanding setup. I decided to go for the biggest tub readily available around here because in my 12 years of fishkeeping I have realized that bigger is better (less chance of sudden swings). If I get the hang of this outdoor fishkeeping I have plenty of room for maybe a decent koi pond (so at least 12x9x4ft - probably even better if double the surface). Ciao
     
    Paul Sabucchi, Jun 10, 2017
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  8. Paul Sabucchi

    sissy sissy

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    Do you know what size the pipe is and calculated how big a pump you will need .Remember the higher the hose has to pump the bigger the head on the pump has to be .
     
    sissy, Jun 10, 2017
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  9. Paul Sabucchi

    Paul Sabucchi

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    Will measure once the tubs are all dug in and then I will ask for help with the maths
     
    Paul Sabucchi, Jun 10, 2017
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  10. Paul Sabucchi

    Paul Sabucchi

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    Slight rethink, for this year I will probably just stick with the 1500 liter tub overflowing in the 275 by it's side, from where the pump will send the water back up to it. Yesterday I dug the hole for the big tub and today the one for the smaller one and started removing the excavated dirt, hoping to be finished tomorrow so I can put in place and fill the tubbs. I ordered some plants (Water hyacinth, ranunculus and egeria) and a plant basket, was thinking of putting some filter media in the bottom of it, to be seeded with media from one of my established cannister filters, would it help or at least do no harm? Preordered some fish, 5 each Shubunkin (possibly with some blue), red/white Sarasa and Canary yellows. If this first setup works out ok at a later stage I'll get another 250 gal tub to put higher on the slope, probably put some Aphanio killies in, and build the return "stream" to the bottom.
     
    Paul Sabucchi, Jun 12, 2017
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  11. Paul Sabucchi

    Paul Sabucchi

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    Forgot to say Ciao from Italy FB_IMG_1497293890086.jpg
     
    Paul Sabucchi, Jun 12, 2017
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    MitchM

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    Will certainly help.(y)
     
    MitchM, Jun 12, 2017
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    sissy sissy

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    shade cover nice for digging ;)
     
    sissy, Jun 12, 2017
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  14. Paul Sabucchi

    Paul Sabucchi

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    Been running a week...so far so good. Will run NH3/NO2/NO3 tests tomorrow. Plants are water hyacinth, water sprite, eleodea and frogbit (european not amazon). Fish are 5 each of 2 1/2" Shubunkin, Sarasa and Canary. Will see how I get on with this tub-pond then next year I may add another tub (ideally a white one) for some Aphanius mento
     

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    Paul Sabucchi, Jun 21, 2017
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  15. Paul Sabucchi

    Paul Sabucchi

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    Hi, water parameters are good (NH3 and NO2 = 0, NO3 barely there all done with Sera liquid tests) but with this sunny hot summer gettig plenty of green unicellular algae. Thinking of steppibg up filtration with a 3000 l/h pump http://www.wiltec.de/sunsun-ctp-280...0-l-h-10-w-submersible-pumps-filter-fish.html , box filter http://www.wiltec.de/bio-filter-cbf-200a-filter-system.html and UVlight http://www.wiltec.de/pond-and-aquar...r-steriliser-filter-uv-light-cuv-218-18w.html
    Before pulling the trigger would really appreciate your opinion about the choice of hardware and should I put the uv clarifier after the box filter (it is rated up to 2500 l/h but the pump unrestricted is rated 3000 l/h, I am thinking with a bit of head and the box filter in between it should bring the flowrate well within the uv clarifier's capacity). Grazie e Ciao
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
    Paul Sabucchi, Jun 29, 2017
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  16. Paul Sabucchi

    sissy sissy

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    The slower water goes into a uv the better it will work .
     
    sissy, Jun 29, 2017
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  17. Paul Sabucchi

    Paul Sabucchi

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    Would you then advise to put a T on the output from the filter so to be able to regulate the flow to the UV clarifier? Can the flow be too slow so it becomes bactericidal and this may not be entirely useful? Thank you again for taking the time to give me the benefit of your experience. Ciao
     
    Paul Sabucchi, Jun 29, 2017
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    sissy sissy

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    I have one on mine .I use a ball valve to slow down the water so the uv can work better .
     
    sissy, Jun 29, 2017
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  19. Paul Sabucchi

    Paul Sabucchi

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    Great minds think alike...
     
    Paul Sabucchi, Jun 29, 2017
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  20. Paul Sabucchi

    Paul Sabucchi

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    Since last summer there have been some developments, fish-wise I have been busy with all my indoor tanks adding a further few (now 9 + 3 tanks) and lately adding another two 275 liter tubs to my ponds. The big 1500 liter tub with the 15 or so shubunkin/sarasa/canaries has overwintered well, occasionally temperatures have dipped to -10C. Come springtime I have started tinkering again, adding a few baskets as advised by Dr. Novak (anoxic filtration a.k.a. bio-cenosis baskets) with the clay cat litter and all... plants seem happy. I added the two extra tubs as mentioned, a top basin with a DIY sieve, the 3000 l/h pump (Sunsun CTP 2800) and a few days ago the UV (Jebao PU36) with a few ball valves to manage the flow as required. It has a year of free floating algae to clear so it may take a while... In the mean time I have kept thinking about stocking for the 3 smaller tubs. Still set on Aphanius mento for the 1st, thinking of ricefish (Oryzias latipes " yellow Ogon") for the second and rainbow shiners (Notropus chrosomus) for the third. For the first two species I tried to get eggs (Aphanius from Rumania and Ricefish from northern Italy) but have been unsuccessful hatching or arrived already mouldy. Today a breeder in Malta has shipped me 4 sexed pairs of Aphanius mento "Kirkgoz" so I am keeping my fingers crossed they will arrive ok. I am planning on putting 2 pairs straight in the tub and one pair each in two separate 10gal fish tanks so not to put all my eggs in one basket. If all goes well with this lot further down the line I will try and get some ricefish and the shiners. Ciao
     

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    Paul Sabucchi, May 28, 2018
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