Old pond came with new house.

[Sur4huy1]

Okay , good info, I did throw air pump in yesterday morning to increase aeration, but maybe it’s just not enough? Waters still pretty chilly so i would think it could rearain fairly decent o2. I want to grab a longer hose and have it bubble From lower in the pond. But that’s what’s on it now.

Note it got much more foamy after that salt treatment . Plan a 5-10% water change today to start changing out that salt.

 

[Sparky]

Hmmmm. Respiration seems normal? He looks irritated but not scary irritated. Normally I’m not one to throw meds around but I would not shy away of picking up some pond grade melafix and giving the whole pond a round. Have you observed any poop action from him? If so, look normal? Whoa, edit I didn’t see you’re in the middle of W/C to deal with the salt. So treatment is out til your finished with that.

 

[Sur4huy1]

Hmmmm. Respiration seems normal? He looks irritated but not scary irritated. Normally I’m not one to throw meds around but I would not shy away of picking up some pond grade melafix and giving the whole pond a round. Have you observed any poop action from him? If so, look normal? Whoa, edit I didn’t see you’re in the middle of W/C to deal with the salt. So treatment is out til your finished with that.

No poop observed, was hoping he’d poop and I’d see it when I netted him. I can grab the melafix, I don’t think it would, but would that have any adverse reaction if added before the salt is totally out? I know some meds react differently at higher salinity. And not sure if that would be a concern for koi?

 

[Sparky]

I can’t say for sure on any adverse affects. Kind of doubt it. I just didn’t want you to be treating the pond while on W/C schedule as it would make dosing inaccurate. Yes if you can let’s see what his guts are doing. As far as not eating, they just maybe got be a lot title wary with the extra activity going on. I’m assuming you have something laying about that could serve as QT in case of emergency. Keep up with the O2 and keep testing. You’re doing all the right stuff.

 

[Sur4huy1]

Need to get a QT container. Only have salt bath (giant Rubbermaid’s). Want to go to tractor supply and get something this weekend when I can go with my truck .

And thanks ! to you and all! I though salt tanks were tricky, add the outdoors and very large fish and it’s a whole new ball game. In tanks quarantine and observation was allot easier. Loving it, but always so much to learn!

 

[barryian]

I moved into a new house in December that includes a 900-1,100 gal pond based on general calls. He had it as a filterless for 15 years. I would like to get an external filter hooked up soon, but haven’t yet. It has five koi, one 20+ inches at the fork two 15+ inches at the fork and two about 12 inches and less.

One of the 15 inch started resting on his side two days ago. He immediately gets up and acts normal when he see you, but also occasionally flashes 1-2 times then stops and I may see it again that day or may not. (I’m sure he’s doing it more while I’m at work). I tried to bet him yesterday but missed a few time and stopped so I would stress him more if he was already weak. Want to try again tonight and see his gills. No external marks or swelling (dropsy type bloat) no sores or ulcers. Color is normal, maybe a very little pink which I’ve noticed often happens when stressed.

Water is ph 7.6, ammonia zero, nitrite zero, nitrate zero KH abou 60ppm (a little over 3dkh).

They all have been more sluggish the last two days and we had a cold week. Additional my young son was at home with the grand parents and over fed the crud out of them. I scooped everything out but not sure if that’s a cause.

Pond was salted to 2.0 , and has a little foam since then . Was done on the guidance form a manager of a local aquarium (not a store, it’s dolphins, seals, massive koi pond, sharks, Amazon tanks etc)

The oragngwnand white Guy is the side layer. Sometimes complete side , afternoon may not lay down completely.

Any help trying to diag this fish, and ensure the pond stays balanced would be greatly appreciated.

Hi - I haven't been around, got an email and hopped on. Been busy. Saw this first. I couldn't agree with Mitch more. I skimmed through. Kh is quite important and some are clueless to it. Keep raising it slowly. I raise mine radically ( maintain a 150-180 ) but that's because my pH is always 8.4 so that's safe. The number of fish also depends on your filtration. I have 10 Koi, some just over 2 feet and might have to lessen the load at some future point as I have a 2000 gal pond. I also have over filtration for 5000 gallons plus using an Alpha One closed system, Savio skimmer, main drain, UV's, pre-filter, etc. So far so good.
The key is not caring for the fish but knowing your water science as it seems you do. Salt can be advantageous short term but that could be a problem long term in your case. I'm thinking of the koi on its side. With no physical signs, it sounds like stress and as Mitch said, do those water changes to remove the salt. Remember each time you do a water change, add that baking soda to maintain the buffer. Being I maintain an 8.4 pH as long as I can recall, I've never had a problem. That would frighten some but it's more important maintaining the number as it's the fluctuation you need to avoid. Mitch covered it all so this is just a redundant FYI ... As I read more, I think you might be able to keep those koi depending on your filtration. Skimming through parts, I didn't see it or just missed it but what is your system comprised of?

 

[Sur4huy1]

Hi - I haven't been around, got an email and hopped on. Been busy. Saw this first. I couldn't agree with Mitch more. I skimmed through. Kh is quite important and some are clueless to it. Keep raising it slowly. I raise mine radically ( maintain a 150-180 ) but that's because my pH is always 8.4 so that's safe. The number of fish also depends on your filtration. I have 10 Koi, some just over 2 feet and might have to lessen the load at some future point as I have a 2000 gal pond. I also have over filtration for 5000 gallons plus using an Alpha One closed system, Savio skimmer, main drain, UV's, pre-filter, etc. So far so good.
The key is not caring for the fish but knowing your water science as it seems you do. Salt can be advantageous short term but that could be a problem long term in your case. I'm thinking of the koi on its side. With no physical signs, it sounds like stress and as Mitch said, do those water changes to remove the salt. Remember each time you do a water change, add that baking soda to maintain the buffer. Being I maintain an 8.4 pH as long as I can recall, I've never had a problem. That would frighten some but it's more important maintaining the number as it's the fluctuation you need to avoid. Mitch covered it all so this is just a redundant FYI ... As I read more, I think you might be able to keep those koi depending on your filtration. Skimming through parts, I didn't see it or just missed it but what is your system comprised of?

High Barry, so as far as I’ve seen the system that on this is just the water fall and the iris basket. Some notes, the water fall is (guessing) 900+ gallons ... could be WAY off as the flow is pretty high and I can’t Hague this by sight) the rocks on the back end go all the way into the pond and the water fall would usually run through most of it and flow into the pond. I angled it out a lottle
To try and increase aeration a month ago(maybe not worth is as the surface area on the rock probably adds plenty of o2 diffusion also) .
That all he had. I added a particulate filter made of a 300 gal/ht with filter media to try to keep the pollen and other spring stuff from just settling and adding load to the pond. And now added the air pump to try to add even more aeration .

Water parameters have been pretty stable since I moved in. Is it possible that the rocks and the water running through them has created a bionfilter that’s actually handling this load? I honestly am not sure how his koi are relatively healthy and so large with 15 years and nonfilter.

Oh and it does have a connection for UV which is not on yet but he stated he’d run that periodically. He left the UV and the pump he used on it is in the pond I just have to reach get into and set it up.

 

[barryian]

High Barry, so as far as I’ve seen the system that on this is just the water fall and the iris basket. Some notes, the water fall is (guessing) 900+ gallons ... could be WAY off as the flow is pretty high and I can’t Hague this by sight) the rocks on the back end go all the way into the pond and the water fall would usually run through most of it and flow into the pond. I angled it out a lottle
To try and increase aeration a month ago(maybe not worth is as the surface area on the rock probably adds plenty of o2 diffusion also) .
That all he had. I added a particulate filter made of a 300 gal/ht with filter media to try to keep the pollen and other spring stuff from just settling and adding load to the pond. And now added the air pump to try to add even more aeration .

Water parameters have been pretty stable since I moved in. Is it possible that the rocks and the water running through them has created a bionfilter that’s actually handling this load? I honestly am not sure how his koi are relatively healthy and so large with 15 years and nonfilter.

Oh and it does have a connection for UV which is not on yet but he stated he’d run that periodically. He left the UV and the pump he used on it is in the pond I just have to reach get into and set it up.

Wow - Sounds like a mystery unless he removed a good enclosed filter ...Lol ... Highly doubt it but, you're right. How did they remain healthy without filtration or so little. Does the water fall possibly have filters or is it just a return? There is a bio layer present of nitrosomonas and nitrobacter ( the good bacteria ) obviously but how it is enough is beyond me. My educated guess is that as things warm up ( you're in a colder zone than mine 7B ), that's when you might have the filtration problem raise its ugly head. I don't know your financial situations but you will probably need additional filtration.

I have a dedicated Koi pond so my pond looks like drinking water. Your pond looks like it was meant to be a dedicated koi pond. Is it clear. As far as the UV, I run 2 which is overkill. One 50 watt, one 57 watt. I never shut them down from April through November when I drain the system. In the winter my savio skimmer runs directly through the waterfall continuously with a 1000 watt deicer in front of the skimmer. Pond never freezes and bio bacteria retains a good level in the pond so seeding the filter when turned back on is rather quick. Just some FYI's for you. For now, keep up the water changes to remove the salt, keep a check on kH and get that level up above 80 though well above that won't hurt anything. Then filtration should be a consideration. The sideway koi might straighten out if it's not too late just from the water changes and salt removal. Lastly, keep that ammonia, nitrates & pH under your watch though pH should stay fine with the buffer. I wonder why he used the UV periodically. Some on this forum are adverse to UV's. I believe many people who are into bog filters don't use or maybe not need UV's though I'm not all familiar with bog filtration as I am with dedicated Koi ponds used closed systems. Keep us posted.

 

[Sur4huy1]

Wow - Sounds like a mystery unless he removed a good enclosed filter ...Lol ... Highly doubt it but, you're right. How did they remain healthy without filtration or so little. Does the water fall possibly have filters or is it just a return? There is a bio layer present of nitrosomonas and nitrobacter ( the good bacteria ) obviously but how it is enough is beyond me. My educated guess is that as things warm up ( you're in a colder zone than mine 7B ), that's when you might have the filtration problem raise its ugly head. I don't know your financial situations but you will probably need additional filtration.

I have a dedicated Koi pond so my pond looks like drinking water. Your pond looks like it was meant to be a dedicated koi pond. Is it clear. As far as the UV, I run 2 which is overkill. One 50 watt, one 57 watt. I never shut them down from April through November when I drain the system. In the winter my savio skimmer runs directly through the waterfall continuously with a 1000 watt deicer in front of the skimmer. Pond never freezes and bio bacteria retains a good level in the pond so seeding the filter when turned back on is rather quick. Just some FYI's for you. For now, keep up the water changes to remove the salt, keep a check on kH and get that level up above 80 though well above that won't hurt anything. Then filtration should be a consideration. The sideway koi might straighten out if it's not too late just from the water changes and salt removal. Lastly, keep that ammonia, nitrates & pH under your watch though pH should stay fine with the buffer. I wonder why he used the UV periodically. Some on this forum are adverse to UV's. I believe many people who are into bog filters don't use or maybe not need UV's though I'm not all familiar with bog filtration as I am with dedicated Koi ponds used closed systems. Keep us posted.

Barry,
Actually i am on long island. and as for set up on filtration, what do you have? suggest on mechanical closed system suggestions. I'm getting some advice on Bog filters also, but would like to entertain both sides. I would be okay building. I'm researching pre-mades, and i keep seeing allot of bead filters and the Oasis Biosmarts, aquascape canisters. I'm thinking with the pond heavy like this id aim to at least have double flow for the filter ( so I'm thinking 2,000 gal per hour minimum. ) financial situation not bad, kids have major camps ( One of my sons does the NASA space camp, etc) so i cant make it sea world, but i would think i can come up with enough to get things manageable this summer. ill keep researching, but any suggestions would be great to an have experienced opinion. and if i build i can add going forward, or stage multiples at a later date?

 

[barryian]

Barry,
Actually i am on long island. and as for set up on filtration, what do you have? suggest on mechanical closed system suggestions. I'm getting some advice on Bog filters also, but would like to entertain both sides. I would be okay building. I'm researching pre-mades, and i keep seeing allot of bead filters and the Oasis Biosmarts, aquascape canisters. I'm thinking with the pond heavy like this id aim to at least have double flow for the filter ( so I'm thinking 2,000 gal per hour minimum. ) financial situation not bad, kids have major camps ( One of my sons does the NASA space camp, etc) so i cant make it sea world, but i would think i can come up with enough to get things manageable this summer. ill keep researching, but any suggestions would be great to an have experienced opinion. and if i build i can add going forward, or stage multiples at a later date?

Space camp! Really cool! Love it! My kids are grown but I went to camp for 4 years. I know what it is $ wise these days.

I'm sorry. I misread the 5 for zone 5. I'm on the south shore ... We're in the same zone, maybe same county, so your your water temp is bouncing between 60 - 68F ... My pond is a 40" depth. I'm feeding about 5 times a week. I don't want my koi getting much larger not that I have that much control but the more they're fed the quicker they'll grow. That's if the ammonia level doesn't rise from over feeding.
Again, I'm not big on bogs but I'm not knocking them, just different and less costly. I've attached a picture of what I have so you can see my OCD problem which is missing the picture of the skimmer. I also still have the pvc frame up from the netting. Netting is off. I have to un-assemble the pvc.

I've also attached a link of a filter that can be up and running hours after delivery but some find the price frightening. It's all relative. My maintenance is quite low since I'm running 5000 plus filtration for 2000 gallons. I've had a pond 28 years and rebuilt it in 2012 when Sandy created a major problem (long story) and I go on & on as it is! so we'll skip the long story ... Stay away from aquascape, IMO only as there's so much better filters out there.

My filtration came from here > https://www.aquabead.com/ and the owner, Gary is a great guy. I have a 1hp blower that goes on top where the white cap is. The blower went bad and got rusted and he replaced it. I put the Jandy valve and set it so I just pop the blower on when backwashing and keep it in my pool house so it remains like new. I actually cleaned the rust and have the other blower as a spare.

Here's something that's new and less costly for smaller ponds as I have the Alpha 2.5 for 5000 gallons ... Still costly

AlphaONE 1.75 Filter | New for 2018 | GC Tek

Discover the latest innovation in pond filtration with AlphaONE 1.75 Filter. Achieve superior water quality and revolutionize your pond ecosystem. Order now! ✅ Buy Online 📞 +1-405-258-5551

aquabead.com

And this is a complete system that works upon delivery with a few hookups. > https://aquabead.com/plus-systems/aquabeadalphaone-plus-systems

All in all, it's great, I love it but for 1000-1200 gallons as you have, you certainly can get off easier, $$$ wise. Looks like I just wrote a book.
Sorry about that ...

This is my setup. Those koi are 2 footers but from the water depth, you wouldn't know it. I had the red and white one in the center anesthetized and on a table 3 years ago and it measured 22" then. It was a false alarm as it appeared he had an anchor worm.

 

[Sur4huy1]

Wow, that looks great! Yeah I’d love to have something like that, but I’ll have science it up a bit and do it a little lower on the $$ side this year. New house and space camp dented the reserve. But the cool thing is since it’s external I could plum it in relatively easily when I can.

I was looking for a solution for this year , and sissy mentioned the stock tanks, and I’m thinking that may be my option for the moment. Set up bio and place it where the water fall Is and have the outflow waterfall out. The forum had some interesting takes on it. I think I’d set it so I can run it through the UV on intake once it’s cycled in . I hear out flow is more effective but wouldn’t that nuke the beneficial bacteria? Or once the filter work it , I guess it doesn’t need to re-seed the pond...My catch is would 2,000 gal pump in a 150 gal tank work? I might have to see it, run some numbers and make sure the head flow rate will work, And the filtration would be Sufficient.

Can’t believe how clear your water is, and those fish look great!

 

[Sur4huy1]

spawning and lack of oxygen ,maybe he never fed them much .I use stock tanks for my filters

Sissy, if I was to look into building a stock tank filter (several examples on the forum here) hownwould I go about calculating volume , flow and filtration sufficiency? Or direction to a source I could refer too would be great too. Thanks for all the information!!

 

[barryian]

Wow, that looks great! Yeah I’d love to have something like that, but I’ll have science it up a bit and do it a little lower on the $$ side this year. New house and space camp dented the reserve. But the cool thing is since it’s external I could plum it in relatively easily when I can.

I was looking for a solution for this year , and sissy mentioned the stock tanks, and I’m thinking that may be my option for the moment. Set up bio and place it where the water fall Is and have the outflow waterfall out. The forum had some interesting takes on it. I think I’d set it so I can run it through the UV on intake once it’s cycled in . I hear out flow is more effective but wouldn’t that nuke the beneficial bacteria? Or once the filter work it , I guess it doesn’t need to re-seed the pond...My catch is would 2,000 gal pump in a 150 gal tank work? I might have to see it, run some numbers and make sure the head flow rate will work, And the filtration would be Sufficient.

Can’t believe how clear your water is, and those fish look great!

That's night shot but it is crystal clear. I had an idea. I built a filter for a friend last spring. I used a 55 gallon drum with 1-1/2" & 2" pvc and bulkheads where the PVC went into the drum. It's simple but could take a 3-4 hours to build and you'd have to be mechanically inclined with some tools. Large keyhole drill for the bulkheads, a good bit of pvc gluing, etc. I searched online for a pic and now can't find it. I filled it part of the way with lava rock, then some bio balls and last on top, I cut round filter matala filters with a last finer filter media at the top. She had a 4000 gallon pond but was limited in funds. It still worked well. She went for an aqua UV which was costly but you could start with the filter and go from there. Probably $400 in material as the 50 gallon drum cost me about $110 with a cover. I used 2 jandy valves as the home depot pvc valves are horrific as they don't turn after a while. One bottom valve was merely a cleanout for a hose to go in and clean out the muck collected. The pump she had and I assume you have one. If interested let me know.

No, I don't want to come by and build it but for your size pond, it would be a great option if you're up to it. I have most of the material in my Amazon orders so I could look them up and send the links. I'd also have to find the online specs again though it is easy to figure out.

Water goes in the bottom, rise through all the media, filters very well plus gives a good bio seeding in the filter. I used 2 bulkheads on top with 2" pvc as the returns so incase the input was too strong, it wouldn't overflow. Also ran it straight into a waterfall. I can be done in reverse where water comes on through the bottom, goes up and filters down coming out the bottom. Both are gravity fed and it has a good forceful flow coming out using 2" pvc. A thought that would work very well with your size pond.

 

[Michael from Daytona]

Wow. Thanks for sharing. Some good responses on water quality and maintenance, although I must disagree with those who insist that liquid testing reagents are globally superior to strips. Both liquid and strip reagents are vulnerable to temperature, atmospheric contamination and simple aging. I prefer the convenience of dipping a strip every few days as long as the strips are stored in cool dry containers. I have cross-tested several brands of test kits and found both types to be reliable - as long as they are fresh.

You have some big fish in a small pond. I have six small koi (3 to 5") and six like-sized comet goldfish in two adjoining concrete-and-tile ponds, each about the size of yours, and they delight in zipping lightning-fast from one end of each pond to the other (about ten feet). They're only a couple of months old but they're growing noticeably. They're very social and form bonds and pairs, like Batman and Robin. They overcome their shyness when they realize you're not a predator but rather their own private source of nourishment, and come crowding one another like puppies to get a handout. I don't really have to feed them as they are voracious algae eaters as well as getting insects and tadpoles off the roots of my water lettuce and hydrilla, but koi pellets (birdshot sized) have a lot of good stuff in them. You might consider even-steven trading your big koi to a dealer for several small ones: they'll get more exercise, produce less waste, and be more fun to watch. When they get big, which will be in a couple of years, you can do the routine all over again - or build a bigger pond! Hope your symptomatic koi gets his equilibrium back soon.

 

[barryian]

Wow, that looks great! Yeah I’d love to have something like that, but I’ll have science it up a bit and do it a little lower on the $$ side this year. New house and space camp dented the reserve. But the cool thing is since it’s external I could plum it in relatively easily when I can.

I was looking for a solution for this year , and sissy mentioned the stock tanks, and I’m thinking that may be my option for the moment. Set up bio and place it where the water fall Is and have the outflow waterfall out. The forum had some interesting takes on it. I think I’d set it so I can run it through the UV on intake once it’s cycled in . I hear out flow is more effective but wouldn’t that nuke the beneficial bacteria? Or once the filter work it , I guess it doesn’t need to re-seed the pond...My catch is would 2,000 gal pump in a 150 gal tank work? I might have to see it, run some numbers and make sure the head flow rate will work, And the filtration would be Sufficient.

Can’t believe how clear your water is, and those fish look great!

Here's the link! Found it! I just suggest using bulkhead fittings, nothing else and you won't have leaks. Also, those valves are terrible so I used Jandy's and added a cleanout at base and an extra return at top. Do not use P&L roofing. These work great and won't leak using just one gasket... >>> . https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0079JU91A/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

DIY 55 Gallon Barrel Pond Filter

Building a 55 gallon upflow barrel filter is very easy and you just need some basic skills to get the job done. The rule of thumb for filtration is that one 55 gallon filter will be able to filter up to 1,500 gallons of pond water (with a moderate fish stock level). Therefore, if you have a pond...

www.thepondforum.com