One pond, one problem, how to fix it ? (run off)

Discussion in 'Pond Construction & Equipment' started by Rivermist, Jan 31, 2013.

  1. Rivermist

    Rivermist

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    Hi everybody...

    Last year we got our pond cleaned.

    We got rid of the major run off issue (thinking at that time that it was the only one) but after a year I just realized this pond being at the lowest point was built by the previous owner to just be a crapy waterhole.
    Here are pictures before the cleaning, after the cleaning and after the cleaning when it rains and there is still run off issues. (Photos not in order, the last one was before the work).

    Now I have the big question, what is my only way to be don e with this problem of rainwater dragging all this mud in the pond.

    Here's my plan please feel free to correct me, or give me other ideas (as this time I'm gonna do the job myself as my husband is done with paying for the freaking pond...).

    1st : I will separate the stream from the pond (big run off when it rains)
    2nd : I think I have to remove all the rocks, get a new bigger liner, raise the edges of the pond and dig a drain all around to redirect the rainwater ?????
    ---> does this sound coherent to you ?

    For the drains, how to proceed ? Use liner and do other dry streams that will become streams when it rains ? is there something easier ?

    3rd : about the liner, is it OK to lay it way behind the edges to protect the edges from any ground moves in case of flooding ? (we are in a very wet area, it's just insane how humid and wet our yard becomes every summer storm.


    What am I missing ?


    thx a lot for your help and if you have a game plan to start and guide on how to proceed you're more than welcome. I ve checked online, in theory how to do this, but I don't feel that qualified so I'm probably gonna be asking a lot of questions here.
     

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    Rivermist, Jan 31, 2013
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  2. Rivermist

    Rivermist

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    for the drain around the edges, I found this picture online, is that what the person was doing ???????
     

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    Rivermist, Jan 31, 2013
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  3. Rivermist

    fishin4cars True friends just call me Larkin Moderator

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    that appears to be what the last picture is doing is digging a trench for a French drain. I'm going to wait and see if Addy pop's in and see what she thinks and says. she is from your area and has had to deal with a similar sloping problems and is familiar with French drains along with you climate. I have some ideas and thoughts so will be checking back in once others post in. It may be possible to improve your problem without digging out the pond. questions I have, where does the stream bed go now? how deep is the pond presently, How much excess liner is tucked away under the rocks around the edge? What is being used as a filter? how many fish do you have and do you have a place to move them if the liner is pulled?
     
    fishin4cars, Jan 31, 2013
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  4. Rivermist

    Dave 54

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    Rivermist
    I note with your third question you said you live in a wet area yes ?
    Do you kow just how high is the water table where you are?
    I ask because the higher the water table the more channce of a lined pond inverting, this happens when the water table do to heavy rains has been known to invert the pond pushing the liner up from bellow.
    The middle of the pond looks as though you have a whale sitting in the middle of your pond with everything else pushed up out of the pond i;e most of you water .

    rgrds


    Dave
     
    Dave 54, Jan 31, 2013
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  5. Rivermist

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    For this pond, on the up slope sides of the pond, I dug trenches, about 4 inches deep, put in some gravel, then dirt, not very deep. I also made sure on the up slope edge of the pond the dirt sloped up and away from the pond. When I was digging the pond I made the slope (to the best of my ability) drain to the sides also away from the pond, like a upside down U the stream is on the top of the U the slope drops away from the stream, directing water to the sides. The run off goes around the pond.

    With our slope any excess water from the pond keeps running down the slope as our yard keeps sloping away deep into the woods to a "dry" stream bed, which is wet quite often.

    The walk out area of the pond, after I had it full, showed a issue during one horrendous rain. The slope is 2 foot higher than the pond edge, mud just ran into the pond. I dug out right by the pond, (not a big area) put in some of that black perforated hose, covered it with some gravel, put a huge rock over it, have not seen mud run in since.

    With my arizona pond, built in a low area of the yard, the yard sloped from the house to the back fence, mild slope. Built in water retention for any major storms, one thing they try to do. Standing water if it did rain hard. For that pond we dug a trench on the far edge of the pond (about 3 foot deep) filled it with gravel for rain drainage.

    From your pictures it does appear the pond is in the lowest spot of the yard. I agree with Fishin, see if there is excess liner under those rocks.

    option one: If there is extra liner, I would pull the liner up as high as I could and build up the edge of the pond.
    option two: No excess liner.......not sure how bad your dirt is, you could dig a trench about a foot plus away from the pond to be filled with gravel, use that dirt to build up a berm around the edge of your pond which will keep the water from flowing into the pond. If one side of the pond stays dryer, dig the wet side, you could covert it to a bog type water collection, plant wet loving plants there.
    option three: if there is a place for the water to flow to, build a dry stream bed, dig out the dirt some, use it to berm up the sides of your pond. Fill that dug out stream bed with some gravel (no liner needed) for excess water to flow out and away.
    option four: convert current stream (can't tell the slope from the pictures) so it is lower away from the pond, to direct water away, take the beginning of the stream make a gravel pit to collect water.

    You could do a new liner, if the other liner has no excess. You might be able to just berm the edges high enough to redirect the water flow away from the pond without changing out the liner. See how high the water rises with storms (around the pond) made your new pond edge higher than that by xx amount.
    On our upslope side I just had to berm the edge by about 2 inches to direct the water away. The upper edge of our pond is dug down by 4 feet (to make the sucker level)

    This is when we first filled it, the edge is covered with water when it is full, the liner goes up around 2-3 inches under the rock slope

    [​IMG]


    You can see the liner here, I had dropped the level to do something, no clue what now lol

    [​IMG]

    That edge is just stacked rocks on dirt, the liner starts at the bottom of the stack of rocks. I put the edge of the liner up by about 2-3 inches, so if water did flow down the rock stack most of it would not enter the pond. I have not seen issues on that edge. IE a mud dump with horrendous rain flow.

    You could keep your stream too, if there is excess liner in the stream raise the edges to keep run off out of the stream. Or just berm the edge of the stream.

    Go out with a umbrella (non lightening storm) once it has been raining for a while and see if you can pick out the spot that is giving you a problem, start there. While building I was outside watching it rain, taking notes on all water flow issues, do a fix until the next storm.

    If you do the new liner, you can have excess laying out of the pond. Our land here does not shift (so far) we have had everything, horribly dry, to horrendous rain, freezing, big snow dumps so far all is holding steady. The low side of the pond is a dirt berm built up around 6 feet.

    Last night 3.3 inches of rain, no issues with that dump.

    We had rivers running down the hills from the front of the house. My pea gravel path to the east of the pond washed out again, it is my run off area, the dirt to the pond side of the path slopes up, very slightly, but enough to keep the run off going down the path, not into the pond.

    [​IMG]

    That is all I can think of right now, need my coffee!
     
    addy1, Jan 31, 2013
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  6. Rivermist

    DrCase Moderator Moderator

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    I would use the rock in the stream to make a dry creek to carry run off water away from the pond
    Use dirt to make a berm around the low side , to divert the water away
     
    DrCase, Jan 31, 2013
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  7. Rivermist

    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    River, it's a LOVELY little pond, in a nice location (well, except for being in a low area). Hoping you can find a solution that will work and be easy for you to carry out on your own, and still care for a baby.

    Do you have any fish? Could always convert it into a wildlife bog. Then when you have the time & energy, either redo the area, or start over and build another, higher-ground pond. Of course, depending on how much room you have to work with, and with child safety in mind.
     
    Mmathis, Jan 31, 2013
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  8. Rivermist

    Rivermist

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    OMG thank you so much for all the replies. Addy... wow, thanks for the details that's what I needed... but it makes me wanna cry.. I feel like it's gonna take me forever to do it on my own... I'll figure it out.


    I'll post a longer answer when I have a little more time... but I have two pics when my pond was looking nice with fish (yes we have fish and they had a lot of babies this year... :) ) frogs, snakes etc...
     

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    Rivermist, Feb 1, 2013
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  9. Rivermist

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    Baby steps, start with going out during a storm, see if you can see where the run off is coming from, i.e. the majority of it. It might be an easy fix. I had to reshape the dirt above one leg of the stream a few times to get rid of the mud flow during bad storms. A ditch with some gravel and reslope worked great.
     
    addy1, Feb 1, 2013
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  10. Rivermist

    Rivermist

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    Ho the run off comes from everywhere... I've been starring at the pond during storms... eventually the pond overflows and so even where there's no run off it ends up dragging whatever is on the shore inside the pond.
    mathis is was a wildlife bog before we cleaned it, it' was just so muddy the fish had a hard time breathing on hot sunny days...
     
    Rivermist, Feb 7, 2013
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  11. Rivermist

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    So can you make a overflow area to carry the extra water pond away? or is the pond lower than everything else?
     
    addy1, Feb 7, 2013
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  12. Rivermist

    Rivermist

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    Addy your pond is magnificent ! And huge !
     
    Rivermist, Feb 7, 2013
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  13. Rivermist

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    We are lucky we have the land and honey bought me a tractor............
     
    addy1, Feb 7, 2013
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  14. Rivermist

    Rivermist

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    the pond is still lower;.. but I was thinking to dig a trench even lower with a slope that would divert all that... I'm just worried about the fish as I've found some out in the stream after big big storms... maybe a thin wire would keep them in the pond...
    Or I just really raise the edges and lower the water level in the pond... (but still with the storms and sun here it's hard to know... )
     
    Rivermist, Feb 7, 2013
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  15. Rivermist

    Rivermist

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    haha on my next house I'll have the land also... and will build the pond with no mistakes !
     
    Rivermist, Feb 7, 2013
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  16. Rivermist

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    If you can dig a trench to divert the water and make it so any extra pond water flowed out of that one area, you can pile rocks, have piping with netting over the end etc to keep the fish in the pond. Without your entire pond overflowing the fish won't work their way out of the pond during high water incidents.
    My overflow has a pile of rocks about a foot plus in and a foot plus wide. We get a river running out of the pond during really hard rains. (we gutter feed the pond) That keeps the fish in the pond



    lmao this is my 6th pond and still made some mistakes.....................minor ones but still correction issues lol Each pond is so different the builds are different can still have issues.
     
    addy1, Feb 7, 2013
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  17. Rivermist

    FountainMan A fountain is like a sculpture but made of water.

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    When I build my pond I'm thinking of doing what Addy did. Letting the water run off into the pond then putting an overflow drain on the other end. One thing is recommended would be to place some marginal plants like cattails and pickerel where the water enters the pond to help filter out excess nutrients otherwise the pond water will become nasty. Then use a large fountain to aerate the water and promote aerobic bacteria to break down the sludge. Retention ponds are interesting but they do help with drainage.
     
    FountainMan, Feb 11, 2013
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  18. Rivermist

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    fountainman, I don't get rain run off into the pond. But we do feed the gutters into the pond. When we get a good rain the pond does overflow via the overflow.
     
    addy1, Feb 12, 2013
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  19. Rivermist

    Austin

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    Austin, Sep 3, 2017
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  20. Rivermist

    Austin

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    Unfortunately I am afraid there is not a good fix in your situation because of the location of this pond and the site condition around it. Take my advice and relocate the pond else where in the yard and you should make it bigger that this one. You will have years of enjoyment and envious friends .
     
    Austin, Sep 3, 2017
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