Overflow?

[Mucky_Waters]

You had better put a valve before the water gets into the first barrel. I agree a gate valve should be installed there.

If not you are going to drain the pond every time the pump is shut down. How is that going to happen???

Also if you find that this isn't working out for you, you will need a way to shut the water off. Or for cleaning or modifications.

I'm not sure what a bottom drain is going to get you but it seems like an awful lot of work. Lots of information out there on the benefits of bottom drain systems, I've had ponds with and without bottom drain systems, the benefits of a properly designed bottom drain system is a cleaner pond and a lot less work keeping the pond clean. But the caveat is that it has to be a complete system and properly designed, for instance, just putting in a bottom drain and plumbing it directly to a pump defeats the purpose of having a bottom drain.

Keep an open mind to simply putting a pump in the skimmer. With that in mind, think of it like this. It's a little more work and expense to install indoor plumbing when building a house, but the benefits and convenience afterwards far out weight the small amount of extra work installing the indoor plumbing initially.

 

[Marinegrunt]

I know our daughter is going to want the maximum amount of fish the pond can handle. (Although I'd rather have crappie...haha) It just seemed to make sense to go with a bottom drain. One thing I thoroughly researched was the pros and cons. The pros seemed to far outweigh the cons. The only added work is digging in the pipe and fabbing up the barrels. I'm sure there's added tinkering too but I enjoy a good project. I'm just thankful there are so many helpful people here!

 

[mgmine]

Okay sounds like you are sold on the idea. Don't forget to factor in that in the winter the pipes close to the surface will freeze and can crack so keep all the pipes deep enough in the ground. This will determine where your overflow will be as well as the depth of the barrels. With an in ground swimming pool the pipes are blown out using a compressor and then capped off. Valves will also crack so leave them open and have enough space on the pipes that they can be cut out and replaced if needed.

 

[Marinegrunt]

Yeah, I am kind of set on it. It just seems to make sense to me from a maintenance standpoint. I can understand why some would rather not use a bd though. I guess if it doesn't work out I could always tear it out and expand while I'm at it.

Freezing of the pipes is something I didn't consider. Thanks for bringing that up. I have the bottom drain pipe coming out of the side of the gulley right now. It's probably 30" underground where it comes out. I wonder if I could keep the valve somewhat close to where it comes out of the ground. In the winter I could then unhook it right after the valve and insulate it where it comes out of the ground. That could probably prevent it from freezing.

 

[Marinegrunt]

Is there anything wrong with plumbing a wye off of the main 3" drain pipe up to the skimmer? It would seem for the skimmer as long as you have some water flow it would pull debris off of the top.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Is there anything wrong with plumbing a wye off of the main 3" drain pipe up to the skimmer? It would seem for the skimmer as long as you have some water flow it would pull debris off of the top.

Using gravity feed, I am not sure that you would get enough water flow for an attached skimmer to be even slightly effective. Especially if the flow is divided between the skimmer and the BD.

 

[mgmine]

Freezing of the pipes is something I didn't consider. Thanks for bringing that up. I have the bottom drain pipe coming out of the side of the gulley right now. It's probably 30" underground where it comes out. I wonder if I could keep the valve somewhat close to where it comes out of the ground. In the winter I could then unhook it right after the valve and insulate it where it comes out of the ground. That could probably prevent it from freezing.[/QUOTE]
Having spent 4 years in Eureka I know how cold it can get there. Brrrrrrr. I can't picture the setup you are thinking about. If you are 30" below the surface you are safe. If anything including the valve is close to the surface then you could be in trouble.

 

[addy1]

I have a lot of pipes that are above ground level. I take off any ball valves, pull the pump, leave the pipes open to air. They all do fine, freeze up but don't crack. The bog pipes stay full of water the way we plumbed them in, so far no issues.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Is there anything wrong with plumbing a wye off of the main 3" drain pipe up to the skimmer? It would seem for the skimmer as long as you have some water flow it would pull debris off of the top.

It tried it, I couldn't get enough flow through the skimmer for it to be effective.

The freezing pipes dilemma is why I located all my filters and pumps in an insulated pump/filter room.

 

[Marinegrunt]

Sounds like a separate line is a must. I actually had already plumbed in a wye before asking. I'll put a cap on it about 6" below grade and use it as a clean out.

My pump has a 1 1/4" outlet. Does the pipe size running to the upper pond matter? I assume if I used 1 1/4" pvc there will be a lot of pressure and might cause water to really splash around in the upper pond. Would I want to go with a larger size and maybe tee off at the end so two returns enter the pond? I wouldn't even call the upper one a pond. It's small and is why I could see pressure being an issue. If I do want to use a larger pipe would I be okay using 1 1/4" most of the way and then branching off with a larger size? Reason being is I already purchased the pipe and fittings. I can always take them back if I don't need it.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Sounds like a separate line is a must. I actually had already plumbed in a wye before asking. I'll put a cap on it about 6" below grade and use it as a clean out.

My pump has a 1 1/4" outlet. Does the pipe size running to the upper pond matter? I assume if I used 1 1/4" pvc there will be a lot of pressure and might cause water to really splash around in the upper pond. Would I want to go with a larger size and maybe tee off at the end so two returns enter the pond? I wouldn't even call the upper one a pond. It's small and is why I could see pressure being an issue. If I do want to use a larger pipe would I be okay using 1 1/4" most of the way and then branching off with a larger size? Reason being is I already purchased the pipe and fittings. I can always take them back if I don't need it.

Why not fabricate a diffuser pipe to use at the waterfall outflow?
Something similar to this, with lots of 1/4" holes.

 

[Marinegrunt]

That's a great idea Meyer. Something like that will work perfect. Thanks!

 

[Meyer Jordan]

That's a great idea Meyer. Something like that will work perfect. Thanks!

These will work with the inflow teed to the middle of the diffuser or entering either end.Also, do not drill holes all the way around the diffuser pipe. Leave one side undrilled. The undrilled side should abut the rear of the waterfall with the holes facing in the general direction of the intended flow. And do not drill too many holes. You want the water flow diffused equally along the entire length of pipe.

 

[mgmine]

Go with at least 1 1/4" larger would be better. If pressure (volume) is an issue then slow it down with a valve. The pond at the top is going to be receiving a lot of water so it could run over on the sides unless it can quickly get rid of it into the lower pond. There will be a lot to go wrong with so many things working together so be ready to compensate and balance things.

 

[Marinegrunt]

Thanks guys. I appreciate all of the help. I installed carpet pad for the underlayment in the main pond last night. It's mainly clay so I should be okay. There were tree roots but I cut the off a few inches into the side and packed clay over them. Not too much for rocks.

I think at first I'll just put the pump in the main pond just to make sure the waterfall and upper pond flow right. I'm not sure how high the sides need to be on the stream. It's about 3' wide. The lower the sides the better because it'll be easier to shape the yard away from the main pond. Right now the sides are built up about 4". I can always build them up more if I have too. I do have a few pools dug along the way.

I started brainstorming the pond when I was cutting down trees, building retaining walls, and leveling the yard. I figured dig a hole, throw in a liner, rocks, etc and we'd be up and running. Ha...boy was I wrong! I did research a little but obviously not nearly as much as I should have. But hey, I am having fun.