Ph Constantly Rises

[barryian]

Hi -
Does anyone experience their pH constantly rise? This has been going on for years. All levels remain perfect and I use
baking soda as my buffer. At most, I would think it stay at the 8.4 range but it manages to creep up to 8.8 - 8.9. Another thing I've noticed is this year, I have 0 carpet algae and my plants... water lettuce and hyacinth won't grow, just die back so I removed them from the baskets.

My first pond, 24 years ago always had a lower pH in the 7.5 range. I've rebuilt the pond in 2012 and have had the pH issue ever since. The pond is 2000 gal, Alpha one bio filter, main drain, pre-filter, savio skimmer and 2 UV's ....Rocks are below the water surface and I've been wondering if that plays a part in the pH. I do keep a high 150 + kH level. Fish are big, healthy and never have problems. I guess 8.4 doesn't bother me but when I approach the high 8's, it does.

This year which I had mentioned in the forum to Meyer, I had 3 females spawn within 3 days. Kind of like a bad dream. Ammonia levels naturally spiked and a high pH isn't a great thing with ammonia spikes. Really have to stay on top of it.

So, with all due respect to the ladies on the forum, is there any way to sterilize the females? Seriously, I'm not being funny as I dread this happening again.... Thanks for any suggestions to any of the above scenarios.

 

[morewater]

Are the rocks that you added after your rebuild limestone?

 

[cas]

I read that Carbonate hardness (KH) will prevent low PH (a PH crash) and Calcium hardness (part of GH) will prevent high PH.
If the pH is going above about 8.5, increase the GH to 100. This will help maintain the PH in the 8.2 – 8.4 range.
I have been doing this and my PH came back down to 8.4

 

[barryian]

Are the rocks that you added after your rebuild limestone?

No, rocks definitely are not limestone. Not sure of the origin but I do have to find that out!

 

[barryian]

I read that Carbonate hardness (KH) will prevent low PH (a PH crash) and Calcium hardness (part of GH) will prevent high PH.
If the pH is going above about 8.5, increase the GH to 100. This will help maintain the PH in the 8.2 – 8.4 range.
I have been doing this and my PH came back down to 8.4

Thanks, interesting as it's one thing I've never paid very much attention to was GH. Kh was paramount since the pH can crash if it became very low. Being I have a bead filter, I keep it high. I'll check the GH today and read more about it. Thx

btw - What are you using to raise the GH?

 

[Mmathis]

@barryian Are the rocks you have in the pond the same ones that were there before you rebuilt?

AND, do this if you haven't already done so: 1) check your water pH at the source [tap, if you use tap water], and 2) get a few pH readings both AM and PM. The pH will change during the day, which is natural. If you've been routinely checking the pH, say in the mornings, and then you start checking it only in the evenings, it will be different.

The important thing to remember is to NOT do anything to make drastic changes -- even Mother Nature does her thing gradually. Good that you are checking the pH and KH. IMHO, if your fish are and continue to be healthy, then it might not be anything to worry about. I would be more concerned if the pH was taking a downward trend (but you have a good KH, so....).

 

[barryian]

@barryian Are the rocks you have in the pond the same ones that were there before you rebuilt?

AND, do this if you haven't already done so: 1) check your water pH at the source [tap, if you use tap water], and 2) get a few pH readings both AM and PM. The pH will change during the day, which is natural. If you've been routinely checking the pH, say in the mornings, and then you start checking it only in the evenings, it will be different.

The important thing to remember is to NOT do anything to make drastic changes -- even Mother Nature does her thing gradually. Good that you are checking the pH and KH. IMHO, if your fish are and continue to be healthy, then it might not be anything to worry about. I would be more concerned if the pH was taking a downward trend (but you have a good KH, so....).

Thanks TurtleM. Believe or not, I'm not new to this. Ponding 24 years. Gh was something I never felt important, As far as morning and night, I have no fluctuation as I keep my kH above 150. Fluctuations morning to evening can be in the 1.0 range or less. I go through maybe 20 lbs of baking soda from March through November while my main bio-filter is running. The bios consume much kH and I keep it high. I just re-calibrated my pH meter this morning and Ph was at 8.4 .... I'll check it tonight and recalibrate prior to get an accurate reading. My gH kit is old. Picking one up later. Thx

 

[cas]

btw - What are you using to raise the GH?

I have been using Calcium Chloride and Epsom Salt (magnesium sulfate heptahydrate). Swimming pool supplies 'calcium hardness increaser' is calcium chloride and is safe for fish. But check to make sure it doesn't contain any other chemicals.

I found this on koiphen.com "Calcium chloride will only affect pH if the pH is above 8.3 and sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) was used to raise the KH. This is because Calcium chloride precipitates out the baking soda, which was added to raise the KH (which could also raise the pH above 8.3), so the result is a stable 8.3 pH."

 

[barryian]

I have been using Calcium Chloride and Epsom Salt (magnesium sulfate heptahydrate). Swimming pool supplies 'calcium hardness increaser' is calcium chloride and is safe for fish. But check to make sure it doesn't contain any other chemicals.

I found this on koiphen.com "Calcium chloride will only affect pH if the pH is above 8.3 and sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) was used to raise the KH . This is because Calcium chloride precipitates out the baking soda, which was added to raise the KH (which could also raise the pH above 8.3), so the result is a stable 8.3 pH."

I have 50 lbs of Calcium Chloride as I have an inground pool. Being my Kh is constand, I don't have to do much measuring when adding baking soda being it's an 8.4 constant. What are the amounts of Calcium Chloride that you add? Sorry but I lost you somewhere. Your using baking soda or to raise the kH? The Calcium Chloride lowers the pH only if above 8.3? but where does the epsom salt come in?

 

[cas]

Both Calcium Chloride and Epsom Salt raise GH.

Meyer Jordan recommended this in a previous thread: Start with 3 tablespoons of each dissolved in a container of pond water before adding it to the pond. Slowly pour it around the perimeter. Allow to mix and retest GH. Repeat this process until you achieve a reading of 100 - 150 mg/L (ppm). 3 tablespoons should raise the Hardness in a 1,000 gallon pond about 5 ppm.

And some where I read it is not recommended to raise calcium by more than 20 ppm per 24 hours.

 

[barryian]

Both Calcium Chloride and Epsom Salt raise GH.

Meyer Jordan recommended this in a previous thread: Start with 3 tablespoons of each dissolved in a container of pond water before adding it to the pond. Slowly pour it around the perimeter. Allow to mix and retest GH. Repeat this process until you achieve a reading of 100 - 150 mg/L (ppm). 3 tablespoons should raise the Hardness in a 1,000 gallon pond about 5 ppm.

And some where I read it is not recommended to raise calcium by more than 20 ppm per 24 hours.

I've spoken with Meyer months back about this. I understand the chemistry but would like a lower pH in the event of spawning and ammonia spikes. Otherwise all is well. I believe what is meant by not raising the kH more than 20ppm is that if you have a pH of say, 7.8 ... You don't want to raise your pH in hours to to the baking soda constant of 8.4 ... On the other hand, if you maintain an 8.4 range, then you can raise the kH up significantly because the pH won't change.

 

[cas]

I believe what is meant by not raising the kH more than 20ppm

FYI - My post said don't raise the calcium more than 20ppm in 24 hours'.

I also wish I had a lower PH so if the ammonia increased it wouldn't be as toxic.

 

[cas]

@barryian see http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?115911-concernd-about-ph/page2 post #26 and #34.

 

[barryian]

@barryian see http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?115911-concernd-about-ph/page2 post #26 and #34.

Thanks Cas! Makes perfect sense. Read through it. So, I have a 50 lb container of calcium chloride for my pool which says " Contents: Calcium Chloride " yet it freaks me out using it with Leslies's name on it! Would you know if anything else might be in there or do you use pool CC? Otherwise, where have you gotten it from? I don't see any decent sizes on line.
btw - My gH shows a 3, quite low! Kh is approx 180 which is fine. That kH drops rapidly of which I add naturally baking soda at each water change and then some if I haven't done a change in a while.

Hey @Meyer Jordan ... How have you been. Beautiful summer so I've been outdoors mostly doing
all kinds of " STUFF " ...

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Thanks Cas! Makes perfect sense. Read through it. So, I have a 50 lb container of calcium chloride for my pool which says " Contents: Calcium Chloride " yet it freaks me out using it with Leslies's name on it! Would you know if anything else might be in there or do you use pool CC? Otherwise, where have you gotten it from? I don't see any decent sizes on line.
btw - My gH shows a 3, quite low! Kh is approx 180 which is fine. That kH drops rapidly of which I add naturally baking soda at each water change and then some if I haven't done a change in a while.

Hey @Meyer Jordan ... How have you been. Beautiful summer so I've been outdoors mostly doing
all kinds of " STUFF " ...

Hey, Barryian! Just trying to maintain.
A GH of 3? Need to get that up to the same level as the KH. Do it gradually though. Some claim otherwise but I have never been one to change any parameter abruptly unless it is life supporting like Oxygen.