Pond/Bog Renovation with more questions


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Hello again,

Making way on pond/bog revamp but questions for tips/thoughts on where I'm headed with ideas. I am - NEW - so feel free to point out whatever.

Inherited and found a leak, fixing liner and hopefully attaching more liner as I expand it a bit. does it matter how I seal the liner to a new liner piece and how do I tell the difference between them or do the sealants work with each type? I know there is the seal guide but I'm unsure of my current liner type.

Have a laguna pump inside a plastic guard. I'm removing the skimmer box entirely as it annoys me and likely source of leaks. Think of the skimmer area - think of it removed. There will still be a ring of dirt around outside with the plants, but the skimmer will leave a hole when removed. making it a bit bigger... About 12" down will be a shelf, 18" from that will be a hole. On the shelf will be a flagstone covering the ~2' tier/hole. Inside the bottom 18" hole on a paver raising it up will be the pump.
IMG_0462.JPG



Another issue I ran into: there is a small walking bridge. I lifted the bridge...the liner is nearly flat. No doubt water runs over the sides. I have to redo this, it's the river area that connects the water entrance spillway and the main pond water.
IMG_0459.JPG



I first thought about digging it deeper but also figured we'd add a small water fall possibly instead of the tiny pond which starts the system. If I added this , I'd raise some of the river to increase the grade and made it so I need to dig less under the bridge when it comes time.
The blue lines are the area where the waterfall'y thing would go.
IMG_0458.JPG


There's about 3-4 feet I can expand the mount back to the walk way, so the mound wouldn't be much higher. Thought of having a spillway come in perpendicular and then it diverts down the river way.
Question: I dont have underground pipes or anything fancy -at all-. Just a pump and black tubing. If I use foam along w/ the liner, can I devise my own waterfall spill way without the huge plastic waterfall aparatus?


IMG_0460.JPG



this is the tubing water enters the small pool by (usually covered by rocks).
IMG_0461.JPG


Lastly, I need much more shelf room for plants. (I'm working my way down, need to redo, redig, and make shelves)
I plan to expand this area back and keep it about 6-8" deep for lots of room for plants. I figure the water entering from the river way would circulate past it and take up some of the nutrients. OK idea?
IMG_0455.JPG
 
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brokensword

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Hello again,

Making way on pond/bog revamp but questions for tips/thoughts on where I'm headed with ideas. I am - NEW - so feel free to point out whatever.

Inherited and found a leak, fixing liner and hopefully attaching more liner as I expand it a bit. does it matter how I seal the liner to a new liner piece and how do I tell the difference between them or do the sealants work with each type? I know there is the seal guide but I'm unsure of my current liner type.

Have a laguna pump inside a plastic guard. I'm removing the skimmer box entirely as it annoys me and likely source of leaks. Think of the skimmer area - think of it removed. There will still be a ring of dirt around outside with the plants, but the skimmer will leave a hole when removed. making it a bit bigger... About 12" down will be a shelf, 18" from that will be a hole. On the shelf will be a flagstone covering the ~2' tier/hole. Inside the bottom 18" hole on a paver raising it up will be the pump.
View attachment 142638


Another issue I ran into: there is a small walking bridge. I lifted the bridge...the liner is nearly flat. No doubt water runs over the sides. I have to redo this, it's the river area that connects the water entrance spillway and the main pond water.
View attachment 142639


I first thought about digging it deeper but also figured we'd add a small water fall possibly instead of the tiny pond which starts the system. If I added this , I'd raise some of the river to increase the grade and made it so I need to dig less under the bridge when it comes time.
The blue lines are the area where the waterfall'y thing would go.
View attachment 142640

There's about 3-4 feet I can expand the mount back to the walk way, so the mound wouldn't be much higher. Thought of having a spillway come in perpendicular and then it diverts down the river way.
Question: I dont have underground pipes or anything fancy -at all-. Just a pump and black tubing. If I use foam along w/ the liner, can I devise my own waterfall spill way without the huge plastic waterfall aparatus?


View attachment 142642



this is the tubing water enters the small pool by (usually covered by rocks).
View attachment 142641

Lastly, I need much more shelf room for plants. (I'm working my way down, need to redo, redig, and make shelves)
I plan to expand this area back and keep it about 6-8" deep for lots of room for plants. I figure the water entering from the river way would circulate past it and take up some of the nutrients. OK idea?
View attachment 142643
yes, it matters what type of liner and you should NOT join dissimilar materials. EPDM and HDRPE are liners of choice. There's a whole sticky thread re seaming liners by @GBBUDD I think is in the construction forum. He'll chime in and give you pointers (if you ask nicely!)

Waterfalll foam is just that; for waterfalls, to keep the water directed where you want it but it is not waterproof. Make sure your waterfall area is concave and completely enveloped with liner; you'll avoid most of the usual leaks that way. If NOT seaming/one continuous liner, make sure your waterfall liner is at least 12" overlapping your pond liner and your pond liner goes up UNDER your waterfall liner by the same. This prevents wicking. Too, there should be 6" minimum betwee waterfall and pond water surface, for the same reasons.

You can make waterfalls from weirs, tubes, spillways, whatever; I tend to like DIY weirs so I get a sheeting action at top which I can then divert/divide/deviate as I wish with rocks down below. Sort of a personal vision kind of thing.

Were it mine, I'd put a wye and ball valves on your pump outlet to give you controlled 2 feeds, one which can go to your waterfall, the other to your bog. Might have to upgrade your pump to do this or, get another pump (and skip the wye but still have the ball valve on the waterfall pump).

Yes to having plants in your river to help take up nutrients; just watch that they don't, over time, wick water out along the sides.

Your liner for your river should have 12" minimum as slack on both sides; simply roll it up and bury it with rocks/landscaping. You should have some sort of minimum height on your river sides; @addy1 will chime in on that as I don't have that kind of river issue.

Make your bog at least 12" deep and deeper is fine too; some of us have bogs 3' deep. The more surface area for the good bacteria the better. For your bog, make sure you have at least 6" higher walls than your bog water surface as it's going to eventually rise and you don't want it to overflow the sides.

Hope this helps!
 

mrsclem

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Let me put in my 2cents. How old is the liner? The section under the bridge looks like its starting to break down. Rather than trying to seam pieces, get all your digging done then measure and get one liner for the whole pond. Right now it looks like the side of the pond is at ground level, That will allow run off which will be an issue. The sides can be raised up using dirt or block.
 
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LOOKS LIKE EPDM TO ME
yes, it matters what type of liner and you should NOT join dissimilar materials. EPDM and HDRPE are liners of choice. There's a whole sticky thread re seaming liners by @GBBUDD I think is in the construction forum. He'll chime in and give you pointers (if you ask nicely!)

Waterfalll foam is just that; for waterfalls, to keep the water directed where you want it but it is not waterproof. Make sure your waterfall area is concave and completely enveloped with liner; you'll avoid most of the usual leaks that way. If NOT seaming/one continuous liner, make sure your waterfall liner is at least 12" overlapping your pond liner and your pond liner goes up UNDER your waterfall liner by the same. This prevents wicking. Too, there should be 6" minimum betwee waterfall and pond water surface, for the same reasons.

You can make waterfalls from weirs, tubes, spillways, whatever; I tend to like DIY weirs so I get a sheeting action at top which I can then divert/divide/deviate as I wish with rocks down below. Sort of a personal vision kind of thing.

Were it mine, I'd put a wye and ball valves on your pump outlet to give you controlled 2 feeds, one which can go to your waterfall, the other to your bog. Might have to upgrade your pump to do this or, get another pump (and skip the wye but still have the ball valve on the waterfall pump).

Yes to having plants in your river to help take up nutrients; just watch that they don't, over time, wick water out along the sides.

Your liner for your river should have 12" minimum as slack on both sides; simply roll it up and bury it with rocks/landscaping. You should have some sort of minimum height on your river sides; @addy1 will chime in on that as I don't have that kind of river issue.

Make your bog at least 12" deep and deeper is fine too; some of us have bogs 3' deep. The more surface area for the good bacteria the better. For your bog, make sure you have at least 6" higher walls than your bog water surface as it's going to eventually rise and you don't want it to overflow the sides.

Hope this helps!
yes, it matters what type of liner and you should NOT join dissimilar materials. EPDM and HDRPE are liners of choice. There's a whole sticky thread re seaming liners by @GBBUDD I think is in the construction forum. He'll chime in and give you pointers (if you ask nicely!)

Waterfalll foam is just that; for waterfalls, to keep the water directed where you want it but it is not waterproof. Make sure your waterfall area is concave and completely enveloped with liner; you'll avoid most of the usual leaks that way. If NOT seaming/one continuous liner, make sure your waterfall liner is at least 12" overlapping your pond liner and your pond liner goes up UNDER your waterfall liner by the same. This prevents wicking. Too, there should be 6" minimum betwee waterfall and pond water surface, for the same reasons.

You can make waterfalls from weirs, tubes, spillways, whatever; I tend to like DIY weirs so I get a sheeting action at top which I can then divert/divide/deviate as I wish with rocks down below. Sort of a personal vision kind of thing.

Were it mine, I'd put a wye and ball valves on your pump outlet to give you controlled 2 feeds, one which can go to your waterfall, the other to your bog. Might have to upgrade your pump to do this or, get another pump (and skip the wye but still have the ball valve on the waterfall pump).

Yes to having plants in your river to help take up nutrients; just watch that they don't, over time, wick water out along the sides.

Your liner for your river should have 12" minimum as slack on both sides; simply roll it up and bury it with rocks/landscaping. You should have some sort of minimum height on your river sides; @addy1 will chime in on that as I don't have that kind of river issue.

Make your bog at least 12" deep and deeper is fine too; some of us have bogs 3' deep. The more surface area for the good bacteria the better. For your bog, make sure you have at least 6" higher walls than your bog water surface as it's going to eventually rise and you don't want it to overflow the sides.

Hope this helps!

Anyway to identify it is EPDM?

Sounds like waterfall can be constructed however as long as it the area it’s dropping from us well sealed? Can just run the line into a hidden area, let it fill, spill out like a falls…?
Let me put in my 2cents. How old is the liner? The section under the bridge looks like its starting to break down. Rather than trying to seam pieces, get all your digging done then measure and get one liner for the whole pond. Right now it looks like the side of the pond is at ground level, That will allow run off which will be an issue. The sides can be raised up using dirt or block.

Edit: also what area on the liner under here specifically looks bad?
Line is 16 years old’ish, installed w the house.
Liner has one hole which looks old and frayed which was hidden under a crease.
Rest seems fine. I’ve moved and shoved it around and hasn’t seemed brittle/new cracks.

They currently have two liners sealed (would have to look again if just caulk or what) joining under the bridge area.
AFAIK the liner from entrance/river part is fine but plan to inspect later. I do groan a bit about removing/redoing all the liner as it wasn’t a cost we were looking for in some regard. Need a hole patch kit and extra for lining of former skimmer area, and figured any overage could be sealed to the expanded garden/mulch area and waterfall addition. Think I would need to significantly expand amount of liner to redo the 18’ pond plus around the same up the river/waterfall/entrance.
 

mrsclem

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As I said, just my 2 cents worth. 16 years is old for a liner, even 45mil epdm that is supposed to last 25 years can fail after 10-15 years. Yes, buying a liner to cover the entire area would be a big expense but patching things and having them fail in 1-2 years??
 
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I have to agree with @mrsclem Its not worth using a 15 year old liner So if you do have a good piece left and it has seen some uv rays over the years so you get 10 years more out of it it all that work to save a few hundred bucks? Go for a new liner "Just liners.com " is who I recommend
 
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I would not risk seaming that old liner to a new one. Too many things can go wrong.
Plus, what happens when half your liner (the old one) reaches it's end of service and starts to fail?

The liner is the most basic part of your pond. If you find there's a fault in your seam or have a leak somewhere else, it will not only drive you crazy to find it, but you will have to pull EVERYTHING out to get to the liner.

What if it fails in the dead of winter? If you're in a cold climate, you'll have to wait until Spring to replace it.
Do it right the first time..... but ultimately it's up to you.
 
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Just hopping in to suggest a YouTube person you might want to check out. Ozponds. He is in Australia and has some really interesting DIY methods for making waterfall filters and pump vaults, etc. Just in case you are interested.
 
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Just hopping in to suggest a YouTube person you might want to check out. Ozponds. He is in Australia and has some really interesting DIY methods for making waterfall filters and pump vaults, etc. Just in case you are interested.
I’ll def check him out as that is creeping up as next project in a week or two
 
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So I think I’m in the replace camp so we’re good on that aspect. Just need to save winter fun bux for it in spring.

But to the waterfall/river project - Do people have thoughts on round vs flat rock water falls?
 

brokensword

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But to the waterfall/river project - Do people have thoughts on round vs flat rock water falls?
it's all a matter of personal esthetics; what works for me might not work for you. I actually have employed both round and flat within my design.
 
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addy1

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I have one water fall with round, one with flat, one with a mix, and one with just one flat rock all work!
 

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