Pond dug, liner in...now pump/waterfall concerns

[DMB21]

Newbie here -- both to the forum and to ponding -- and I'm hoping some of you may be able to provide me with some advise.

Let me preface with a little background. I inherited a pond with my house, so I am unsure of the exact size, though online calculators have helped me estimate it at 400-500 gallons. I've taken it upon myself to move the pond from an "out of sight, out of mind" location to an area much more visible. In the process I learned that the pump that was with the pond has flowed its last waterfall and won't be helping me in the future.

Long story short, a project I was hoping would be free of new expenses now has the potential to cost a lot. The bad news is that I've put plenty of hours into deconstructing the pond, demo-ing the new pond site, digging a hole for the pond, and leveling it out, so I'm now married to the pond whether I like it or not -- and I do like it, just am worried about pump cost.

So, here's where I stand: I bought a cheap 620 GPH pond pump from Harbor Freight Tools -- Hyrdo Pacifica is the brand name, I believe -- which says it is for fountains, but also ideal for waterfalls. At the time, I was planning on a fountain only, but due to the landscape of my yard, the top of the pond sits a good 18 inches below ground level at one end, while 1 inch above ground level at the other. In order to make this visably pleasing while also preventing dirt and water runoff into the pond from the high ground, I've decided a small stream and waterfall make the most sense. Here's (basically) where I stand -- I've done some added work since this photo, but you get the idea of location/setting.



By my estimation, I'll be running tubing roughly 3 feet in height from the bottom of the pond (18 inches from the water's surface) and roughly 10-12 feet horizontally from the center of the pond. I plan to make the stream 12 inches wide leading to the waterfall. I fear (due to some recent research) that this 620 GPH pump is extremely weak for my needs. Am I assuming correctly, and if so, how big of a pump will I need?

Any help would be greatly appreiated! Thanks for taking the time to read story and for any replies that may (or may not) follow.

 

[Jason]

Well it depends on how wide your water fall is, I would think it would need to be narrow (around 5-6" wide) to get a solid sheet of water into the pond below to aerate it good unless you are going for the "Trickle" effect. A 620gph pump is plenty for that size pond, and I would not put that pump in a fountain as it would need to be a good size fountain to utilize all that, I have a 3 tier Concrete fountain with an angel on top in my front yard and the 200gph pump I have in there is almost to much as it shoots out and splashes water everywhere so I had the turn the dial halfway to get the flow right lol. I have two 500gph pumps pushing my waterfall and the tubing goes up about 3' before pouring into the fountain and I have a good 8-10" wide fall with a long piece of granite slab I can adjust to get a more forced narrow fall all the way to a trickle style fall, but I keep it in the middle.
Not sure how that 620gph will do though on a stream that long? If that is the pump you want to use without adding another, you add a few small drop off in the stream to help aerate the water better if you don't think you will have a good fall at the end and what did you pay for the pump? Nice looking hole!

 

[DMB21]

Jason, thanks for the quick and thorough response -- and your pond is fantastic. Love it!

I paid a $40 sale price for the pump and an additional $10 for two years of a full replacement warranty, bringing the cost to the pump's original $50 pricetag. I figured with a two-year warranty I'd be safe if it failed me. Harbor Freight has another pump (2150 GPH) priced at $90, which is still within my financial means if I return the other pump. I suspect this could be too large for my project, though, based on what you're telling me. Then again, if I widened the stream to, say 15 inches, maybe it would work? Ideally I'd like a relatively lively stream, if possible, as we love the sound of moving water and my 2 year old surely would be thrilled to watch it.

Another question: would I be better off buying a second pump identical to the one I have, or going with a more power pump, like the 2150 GPH pump listed above? Harbor Freight has the best prices on pumps that I've found, and I'm sure a lot of that has to do with an inferior project, but for now, I'd like to stick with them -- unless you have suggestions for something that would do a better job within the $100 range?

To answer your question, I'd guess the fall at the end will be roughly a foot.

My ultimate plan, as I see it in my head: boardwalk from the house to the grassy area to the left of the pond. Stream "originates" under the boardwalk, then flows about 5-8 feet to the waterfall, where it flows back into the pond and recirculates out.

So a few more quick questions (and thanks again for the help1):

1. I don't have one long pond liner, but I suppose if I over lap several shorter ones for the stream I should be fine, correct?
1a. Should I use some sort of pebbles or larger stones within the stream, or will this reduce the visibility/flow of the water?
1b. How deep should I trench the stream? I'm figuring 5 inches?

2. Once I get to the water fall, I'm assuming I can place a single flat rock for the water to flow onto and into the pond -- no liner needed here, correct?

Thanks again!!

 

[Nepen]

I use that exact same pump and have similar set up with yours (about ~600 gallon pond for me though) and first I ran water fall and the fountain and they are both fine, then I changed to only water fall and it's plenty strong for me. 12" wide might be too big of the waterfall if you want a strong water, but if you want a gentler's fall, sure. My waterfall is probably about 5-6 inches and I have a good current through out the pond.

See my pond in here https://www.gardenpondforum.com/topic/12068-my-pond-4-5-weeks-later/

 

[DMB21]

Nepen, if yours is 600 gallons, I wonder if mine's not bigger. I wish it was stamped on it somwhere. A difference between your pond and mine is that mine will have a stream, which will take the hose a good bit further than yours. Do you still think that will work?

Also, have you had any problems with your pump? How long have you had it?

 

[Nepen]

I dont think the lenght of the hose matter that much for several feet. I used my pump to pump the water out of the pond for water change and using the garden hose (20 ft?) and the water pressure was great. Unless your hose end up a lot higher, that might change an outcome a bit.

I'm sure you can do some experiment, might be able to use about 50 gallon of water for this and run the hose the way you like and see if the output is what you want

I have not had any problem with my pump - had it for 2 months now. I took the filter out though, got clogged after ~5 weeks (could've cleaned it but too lazy).

I think I read it yesterday that Sissy also has the same pump (dont know for sure, just look the same, from Harbor Freight Tools, not too many choice anyway) and she likes it.

 

[DMB21]

I dont think the lenght of the hose matter that much for several feet. I used my pump to pump the water out of the pond for water change and using the garden hose (20 ft?) and the water pressure was great. Unless your hose end up a lot higher, that might change an outcome a bit.

I'm sure you can do some experiment, might be able to use about 50 gallon of water for this and run the hose the way you like and see if the output is what you want

I have not had any problem with my pump - had it for 2 months now. I took the filter out though, got clogged after ~5 weeks (could've cleaned it but too lazy).

I think I read it yesterday that Sissy also has the same pump (dont know for sure, just look the same, from Harbor Freight Tools, not too many choice anyway) and she likes it.

Great! Thanks so much for the tips/advice. Much appreciated!

 

[Jason]

Thanks, I think 2150gph is maybe a little too much but then again your pond is the same size as mine and I have 2,000gph pushing through it in multiple places (Probably more like 1500 after filter and pressure loss from height and distance from the tubing) to help the flow and circulation.
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Depends on how many available outlets you have for more pumps, Filter, UV clarifier, Lights, etc.
I paid $15 each for my SunSun 500GPH mag drive pumps and that's with shipping on Ebay and the Pond Master 950 was $70 on Ebay with Free Shipping and comes with a 5 year warranty as well!

I like the idea of the boardwalk too, just keep in mind if the Tubing is connecting to something under the boardwalk to start the stream, make it high enough or accessible of something were to come loose!

As far as the liner to use for the stream and the depth, I would build it "Up" or ground level with raised slanted sides with rock so it looks more natural and run off does not get in the stream. The liner can "Blue HawK" Construction sheeting from Lowes or HD, you can get a 25'x10' roll of Heavy Duty Puncture resistant 6mil for $22 and double or triple fold it to be as thick as you like and is a cheaper alternative to a pond liner and would work since roots wont be an issue, just make sore to cover it with rocks so the sunlight does not deteriorate it over the years.

For the stream, Use flat slabs in the stream to get the flowing going and place larger rocks on the sides and opposite sides to hold liner in place so it does not overflow into the yard, you could dig small areas of 5" to plant small plants in your stream along the way down and use Pea gravel for the "Soil" so the plants can root themselves to something and once your water is flowing you can use River rock or a larger fill rock to customize the flow how you want it!

The water fall will be fine with a flat stone, Just make sure the 6mil liner overlaps into the preformed liner and then place the slab on top and you can also use "Waterfall Foam" to seal hard to reach/control areas for minimal leakage and 12" is planty for aeration for a 500 Gallon pond.

What are stocking it with? :fish: :goldfish: :fish2:

 

[cr8tivguy]

I'm a big proponent of redundancy. Two pumps feeding your waterfall is better than one-especially if you are going to have fish and possibly some sort of filter system. This way, if a pump fails, you still have the back up running.

I run two pumps in my pond. One runs through my bio filter and into my bog. The other runs directly into my bog. Water is clear as glass (other than a slight brown tint-it's cycling). If a pump fails on me, I still have either the bio filter or the bog to filter and aerate the water.

Have you thought about a filter system yet? Look at the Skippy designs on the forum. They are cheap to build and very effective. It also makes a great basin to feed your fall.
T

 

[DMB21]

Jason, if I'm reading correctly, it would seem as though you agree with Tim about the two pump idea. Rather than having one overly agressive pump, have two smaller pumps flowing into the stream. This serves two purposes: prevents overkill while also providing a back-up should one falter. Thanks for the stream ideas/tips -- how deep will it run? I guess I'm just concerned if I put pea gravel in the bottom the water won't even be visible? As for stocking it, I'm going to strart easy with some goldfish, a tadpole or two, and some snails. Anything else out there that is "easy" that I can try? I think I want to avoid Koi for the time being.

Tim, I like your idea a lot. In your opinion, will two 620 GPH pumps do the trick? I haven't gotten so far as a filter, yet. I didn't realize preparing a pond was as in depth as it is, but I'm intrgued by it and love to learn. I'll begin to look at Skippy designs this evening.

Right now I have two outlets readily available, but I'll have to add more if I plan to add any kind of lighting -- which may or may not be in my future. The plans are a work in progress, so we'll have to see where my mind wanders and what ideas I conjure.

I plan to scrub the pond tonight and strengthen a patch job on a side wall that looks like it has been there for a while. Once I'm done with that, I'll be ready to backfill around the plastic and begin the stream/waterfall. I'll post some new photos tonight or tomorrow to show some progress beyond the photo I've provided above, which is about a week old and outdated.

 

[Jason]

Yes, What Tim said for that very reason and also a 2,150 GPH pulls a lot more amps or watts than two smaller Mag Drive pumps probably. No the Water will flow on top of the pea gravel as it will be forced to overflow to rock vs flowing under it and would act as a mech filter as well.

I have 5 Goldfish, 3 Koi, 2 Shubunkin Goldfish (In an aquarium), 1 Pleco, 100's of tad poles, Frogs from Leopard, Bull, toads, and tree frogs. I am currently building 600 gallon pond to split my total fish up between the two for a slight future proof until I can build my dream 5,000 gallon pond in the coming years. My largest fish right now is a 9" Common Goldfish but my second largest is a 7" Koi that is a white and black/blue marble color who is slowly catching up to him lol

 

[DMB21]

Wow, your pond sounds awesome! I hope I'll eventually be able to establish my pond in such a manner. I know they're a lot of work, and I look forward to that aspect, as the reward of having something so relaxing/soothing to look at and listen to will make it all worthwhile. I just hope I have good luck with plants/fish and don't kill them off. I can't imagine the amount of work a 5,000 gallon pond would be -- but the rward would be huge!

What suggestions do you have for a filter? I'm completely lost with this aspect, as I never really put any thought into it. I have had fish tanks throughout my life and, of course they required a filter, but never put 2 and 2 together for the pond. Will this run off of electicity too, will it feed off my pumps, or will it just be something for water to flow through?

Sorry for so many questions, but the help I'm receiving from you and the others is far better than I had expected! I'm so appreciative of your time/expertise!

 

[Jason]

Well my pond is still young, and why technically is has "established", Most people on here have very well established ponds as theirs have been up and running for years and years and having fish that are upwards of 15 years old!

As far as filters well, Many have disagreed with the filter type that I have, But I believe it works best for small 500-800 gallon ponds just fine! I have a 2-1/2 gallon Pressurized, Mechanical, 13wUV, Biological Filter with a max flow rate of 1,500GPH (I only use 950GPH) and it has kept my water Crystal Clear and algae free for months now and it's pretty hot here and we have radical temp changes as well. You will have algae growth on the rocks in your pond though (which is good) even if you have a UV light that's larger than recommended for your pond.

Most Ponders on here use Skippy style filters and large DYI 55 gallon tub/tank filters that usually spin water up through filter media before reaching the "little larger than inlet" outlet at the top and then pours back into the pond via waterfall, etc. while capturing waste at the bottom like a settlement tank would do with a drain plug. My filter only cost me $50 on ebay and works fine so far, but most will tell you on here that you could build a large DYI less maintenance filter for the same price and use Cheap Sponges, scrubbers, and other material as filter media.

Then there is the DYI Trickle tower filter that ponders have in their pond and can vary in style but the key is to have water that arises from the top and trickles down through Lava Rock, cut up tubing, etc. for Biological filter media as Biological Bacteria needs to grow to break down some of your waste into nutrients in the pond, and I believe you could also use a Bog style filter for a similar purpose, but I don't know much about filtration yet as most others like Tim

 

[Nepen]

I made my own little waterfall filter - cost me ~$40 for the waterfall tub and hose and connector I got from Lowe's. The waterfall tub is the small one that cost $10, about 2 gallon I think? I drilled the intake hole at the back and connected the hose that ran from the pump to there. Then I put in some lava rocks, other biological medias I bought off the internet, and a bunch of hair rollers into the waterfall tub. let the water run though them before go back to the pond. I also had the quilt batting for filtering out small particles just where the water come into the waterfall tub - but now I took it off (it got clogged and sometimes water just overflow and ran out fromt he back of my waterfall so I lose pond water) and replace it with pre-filter (made a box lined with quilt batting and put the pump in the middle) and that works well and I dont have to worry that I will lose water again.

Just an example of what you can create for yourself

I use the 1inch - 1 3/4 inches hose I think - not sure which, if you want more water to go through you can use bigger hose.

 

[DMB21]

Okay, so if i'm understanding this correctly, just creating some kind of basin with filtration media at the top of the waterfall for water to flow through will create a decent filter? I was also told that an attachment pre-filter for my pump would be smart. Something like this. By combining these two filtration methods, should I be in decent shape?

I ended up returning my Hydro Pacifica pump in favor of a Rio 20HF that I found on Amazon. It's cheaper than buying two Hydro Pacifica pumps at Harbor Freight and uses one power source as opposed to two -- which is a perk, given that I only have two outlets near my pond.

Anything else I'm missing that I'll need to know?