pond overcrowding vs fish farm overcrowding HOW???


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Good morning all.

I've got a few questions please.

I replaced a pond this year with 250 gallon with green genie 1200L filter 16-watt uv & 5000L Pump with no waterfall, just filter and 11 fish in it....

2 large common carp,
1 large ghost carp,
3 koi.. med size
5 gold fish med size.


Everything was fine, lost a few fish over the past 10 years ok I guess....

Until:- I've build a new pond 500 gallon, with a new green genie 1200L filter 16watt uv with a new 10.000L pump driving a waterfall and the filter.

Well.........I got a bit carried away and went to a local fish farmer in Kent and purchased 6x small koi..... all seemed fine in the pond 2 weeks in, which was refilled with the original 11 fish + the x6 new ones and ordinal water from the old pond ( i kept the fish in a massive kids pool ).

I also added the entire contents are the old filter to gain the bio from it.... which was also put into a NEW green genie 1200 the old one thus replaced.....

I then went back 3 weeks later to the fish farmer and madness took over purchase another x8... 8in fish Koi... now making the pond level 25 fish....Well, guess what it all stated going wrong.... lost x2 8in koi in a week no sigh on body to why they died...then a small koi died this time with all over body bacteria infection, then another 8in koi no sigh again on body....

Then one of my old original koi 10in.. with a huge infection on its body right by tail... salt baths hydrogen peroxide the lot seems to have stopped it.... but badly scared. Please tell me how mad I've been with fish levels, and any views please I can take it...... what fish level should i really have in this 500 gallon / 2000+L Pond....

** POND SIZE **
: 500 gallon / 2000+ L
: 7feet 3in Long / 3feet 7in Wide, 3feet 2in tall...With high flow water fall
: new green genie 1200L 16watt uv filter
: 10,000lph pump, for max water movement ie filtration.
: x2 air stones via pump filling the pond with air besides the waterfall..

** OVER STOCKING ? **
I'm completely confused, how can fish shops and fish farms have a massive stock all in a small fish holder ie tank.... with just an air line and never have these over crowding problems and deaths like I've had.... PLEASE SOMEONE explain.....

** WATER TESTS **
My pond water test are:-

Ammonia 0.0

nitrites 1.0 down from 2.0 which was high, BUT.... I did salt to 0.3 to deal with that.....as the complete Nitrogen Cycle has not fully established yet

Nitrates are around 30 .... it's been like this years plants etc

Temp range from 15c to 19c

Ph 7.5 / 8

Please pass on your comments freely, criticism is welcome, I've made mistakes.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To be honest with my self I feel sure I know the over all reason why the new fish have died one by one and the infection on the old 10in koi..... overstocking..... I'd love someone to clarify this for me, I'm quite happy to take criticism I've made mistakes..... saddens me though as the fish I've lost where all outstanding to look at and large 8in and expensive... it's my responsibility to kerp them save..... I've failed.

Interesting how fish farming and garden centers run their water control, so do they have the same water running through the entire system..... is that not the same as our ponds, but they have huge numbers of fish in small tubs..... what are they doing so different.

I would be most grateful for a detailed reply ie getting educated ftom others knowledge.

I still think I have a high stock over 20 fish in 2000+ L

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

** POND SIZE **

: 500 gallon / 2000+ L
: 7feet 3in Long / 3feet 7in Wide, 3feet 2in tall...With high flow water fall
: new green genie 1200L 16watt uv filter
: 10,000lph pump, for max water movement ie filtration.
: x2 air stones via pump filling the pond with air besides the waterfall..

Thank you lee

Images of the OLD pond & NEW Pond enclosed !!! Compressed Images......
 

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addy1

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to our group!

Fish farms, have massive filtration and water systems that you don't see. It appears there is only a air line in the tank.

I don't know anything about the green genie filtration system you have.
 
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Hi. Thank you for your fast reply,

I was aware the farms & garden centers etc have massive filtration systems i'm just confused how they overcome the overcrowding deaths i have had, when i only have 2050Ltrs of water and i'm hugely over the top myself with filtration ie 1200L filter Image enclosed.... and 10,000LPH pump.

Kind Regards Lee
 

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It doesn't sound to me like you are quarantining your new fish to be sure they aren't bringing any diseases into you tank. I also would be interested to know your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate numbers. It seems to me like you are knowingly being very irresponsible and for that the death of the fish is completely your fault. Stop adding more fish. Are you familiar with the nitrogen cycle?
 
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Hi DieselPlower.

Fair shout mate... yep i have been most irresponsible and for that the death of the fish's is completely my fault, got very carried away with buying them, its so easy.... I WILL NOT BUY ANYMORE.... as the pond is overstocked as it is......

I am familiar with the nitrogen cycle which i do not have fully running tip top... the nitrites are still high but as I've said I've Salted the pond to 0.3 for this:- Text above in my long intro.

Whats your thoughts on the overcrowding in ponds VS the fish farms / shops they don't have these problems?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

** WATER TESTS **

My pond water test are:-

Ammonia 0.0

nitrites 1.0 down from 2.0 which was high, But.... I did salt to 0.3 to deal with that.....as the complete Nitrogen Cycle has not fully established yet

Nitrates are around 30 .... it's been like this years plants etc

Temp range from 15c to 19c

Ph 7.5 / 8
 
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Welcome to the group! Sorry for your losses.

Besides the over stocking in your pond it sounds as if you didn't quarantine new fish prior to adding them to your pond. You are taking a big risk by not doing so. It's a good idea to keep new fish in a quarantine or holding tank for at least 2 weeks prior to adding to your established pond. That way you can be sure they are healthy before they possibly infect your other fish.

The stores that seem over stocked are also removing dead and sick fish from sale tanks hopefully before the customer sees them ;)
 
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Whats your thoughts on the overcrowding in ponds VS the fish farms / shops they don't have these problems?

I would say a good, responsible fish seller would never overstock a tank. The ones who are doing it are in it for a quick buck and are willing to eat the inevitable losses. If I saw a seller with overstocked tanks I would keep walking - I don't need to buy problems.

I'm glad to hear you intend to change your practice. The fish you already own are depending on you to keep their environment safe and healthy.
 
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Hi. Thank you for your fast reply,

I was aware the farms & garden centers etc have massive filtration systems i'm just confused how they overcome the overcrowding deaths i have had, when i only have 2050Ltrs of water and i'm hugely over the top myself with filtration ie 1200L filter Image enclosed.... and 10,000LPH pump.

Kind Regards Lee
It doesn't sound to me like you are quarantining your new fish to be sure they aren't bringing any diseases into you tank. I also would be interested to know your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate numbers. It seems to me like you are knowingly being very irresponsible and for that the death of the fish is completely your fault. Stop adding more fish. Are you familiar with the nitrogen cycle?
Hi DieselPlower.

Fair shout mate... yep i have been most irresponsible and for that the death of the fish's is completely my fault, got very carried away with buying them, its so easy.... I WILL NOT BUY ANYMORE.... as the pond is overstocked as it is......

I am familiar with the nitrogen cycle which i do not have fully running tip top... the nitrites are still high but as I've said I've Salted the pond to 0.3 for this:- Text above in my long intro.

Whats your thoughts on the overcrowding in ponds VS the fish farms / shops they don't have these problems?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

** WATER TESTS **

My pond water test are:-

Ammonia 0.0

nitrites 1.0 down from 2.0 which was high, But.... I did salt to 0.3 to deal with that.....as the complete Nitrogen Cycle has not fully established yet

Nitrates are around 30 .... it's been like this years plants etc

Temp range from 15c to 19c

Ph 7.5 / 8
Welcome aboard Lee DP and Maria have made some very good points but first I'll bore you with my pond stat's
I run a koi pond of 1,000 gallons imperial which is 4,5 ft deep 7ft in diameter and 21 ft circumference and have around about 12 koi in it at the moment but I have the mother of all filters , you see my pond is a former koi dealership QT pond it has three 32" vortex style filters and a barrel filter 3 airstones supplying air to the 2nd and 3rd filters the 4th having six airstones.
The 1st filter is my vortex no 2 has jap matting , zeolite brushes and filter wool, no3 jap matting lythaqua and filter woolno 4 has K1 bio balls , aquaone bio balls and bio chips my pump is a Oase 3500 and the UV-C is a 36 watt aquapond duo bulbed there are also two airtec 40e's one suplying the air to the filtration the other soley supplies air to the pond via the bottom drain cover.

My solution

To look after our koi we are hands on 24/365 days a year with partial water changes on a weekly basis of 40% plus read the water parameters which keeps our pond ticking along quite nicely .
At feeding times or when sat by the pond I cast a critical eye over our koi looking out for any sign's of parasites, disease, illness or damage then act accordingly , I also do weekly perameter checks .
When buying new koi they go into our 550 gallon imperial QT fasility for 2 months,
Our oldest koi is 27 years of age we sadly lost our smaller 27 year old this year to old age. .
That should answer your question for you my friend, be focused and last but not least build a bigger pond :happy:

Dave
 
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Thank you, outstanding information.... You can see the images in my very 1st post of the old pond and new pond.... but have posted a few here too !

Regards Lee

** POND SIZE **
: 500 gallon / 2000+ L

: 7feet 3in Long / 3feet 7in Wide, 3feet 2in tall...With high flow water fall
: new green genie 1200L 16watt uv filter

: 10,000lph pump, for max water movement ie filtration.

: x2 air stones via pump filling the pond with air besides the waterfall.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

** WATER TESTS **
My pond water test are:-

Ammonia 0.0

nitrites 1.0 down from 2.0 which was high, But.... I did salt to 0.3 to deal with that.....as the complete Nitrogen Cycle has not fully established yet

Nitrates are around 30 .... it's been like this years plants etc

Temp range from 15c to 19c

Ph 7.5 / 8
 

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One thing I caught earlier Lee you said common carp in your pond yes ?
By common are they wild caught carp from a lake.
If so are you aware that your playing with fire here ?
By putting wild carp in with koi carp you are opening them up to two deadly viruses one is Spring Viraemia of carp or SVC and the other is Koi Herpes Virus or KHV especially if those common carp came from a fishing lake that already has KHV .
You'd think that should be the other way around with KHV but its a sad fact that it is rife in many fishing lakes , we koi keepers are blamed for this but the truth is no-one knows how it first got in the lakes of the UK but the movement of carp between countries is probably the vector it got into the lakes .
QT your fish it may just save you alot of heartbreak in the future and "NEVER" mix the two parts of species wild and koi

Dave
 
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Hi Dave....

Yes their Common Carp but I've had them from babe's and their now some 13 years old.... the ordinal Koi i have are also old-ish 8 years old.... its the new ones 8in long i purchased from the farm www.carpco.co.uk that are dying...

BUT they where perfectly fine until after about a week of me having them in my pond..... the tanks they where in where FULL of fish Koi all very good looking and healthy.....

I've lost 3x now all 8in in size.....all from the farm..... Oh and one 3in from the first visit to to the farm. NOT cheap either !! and whats worse BLOODY good looking koi too !!!! GUTTED !!

I've just noticed one of the other 10in ordinal Koi 8yr old is now swimming odd slow, not eating etc etc.... For ***** sake this is getting out of hand.... Ummmmmm ME !!!!!! over crowding i feel rushing....... buying madness.....

I'll watch him and salt bath / drugs etc.... if ??? it gets bad.....:cry:

Pond already salted to 0.3% indefinitely.....
 
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Nines out of ten it will be whitespot or something like that .
Can you take a photo of one of your sick koi behind glass for me please Lee its a long shot I know but I might see something youve missed , tell me do you have a microscope at home or can you get your hands on one ?
if so I can take you through a scrape no problem at least then we'll know what to treat for .
Dave
 
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Hi Dave...

I have access to a very powerful microscope at work it's an electron microscope, however we do have smaller ones lol...

I've looked the fish the one swimming slow not eating.... 10in ordinal Koi 8yr old.

He's got nothing visual however i have just put him back again and noticed some white small.... jelly lumps on one of his gill flab's ? I gave him a slat bath ( with tetra medifiin added ) 3 days ago for 10min... Ummmm ?

I'll get a pic later if i can..... think it may be best to leave him alone for a bit been out 3 times today not so good
 

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boyice2014
Sorry you are going thorough this now. I make sure to never add new fish w/o quarantining. Don't want to risk losing my buddies. Hope you can save the ones you have left.
 
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Hey I wanted to say that I like the look of your pond. Very cool. I also noticed the flow from the return seems a bit slow. What is your turnover rate? I mean it looks like that water isn't even filling out the return fully.... you could have low dissolved oxygen as well.
 
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Hey I wanted to say that I like the look of your pond. Very cool. I also noticed the flow from the return seems a bit slow. What is your turnover rate? I mean it looks like that water isn't even filling out the return fully.... you could have low dissolved oxygen as well.
DP has a point there Lee do you have a pond areator you could stick on the pond with a few airstones ?

Dave
 
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addy1

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It is a very neat looking pond. The koi keepers above will help you out. I don't have them, never have.
 
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Hi all..... sorry been outside....

The dissolved oxygen is 8ppm tested it today, the waterfall is much better now, i have the 10,000LPH pump in for the past 8 days....moving only 2000+L of water.... i have some images a bit dark sorry....

Water flow into filter is very good NOT flooding but filling, water flow off waterfall very good, have a sheet of water coming off the shoot.... i also have 2 air stones running see image...

Been down to the chap 10in Koi that's looking unwell he's swimming but slower than all the others... he has eaten too seen him eat... Ummmm just leave him to it i guess and HOPE for the best.... i have loads of Tetra Medifin ( 100ml to the 2000L ) don't want to poor anymore gear into the pond it is salted to 0.3%

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

** POND SIZE **
: 500 gallon / 2000+ L

: 7feet 3in Long / 3feet 7in Wide, 3feet 2in tall...With high flow water fall

: new green genie 1200L 16watt uv filter

: 10,000lph pump, for max water movement ie filtration.

: x2 air stones via pump filling the pond with air besides the waterfall.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

** WATER TESTS **
My pond water test are:-

Ammonia 0.0

nitrites 1.0 down from 2.0 which was high, But.... I did salt to 0.3 to deal with that.....as the complete Nitrogen Cycle has not fully established yet

Salt 0.3% tested !!

Nitrates are around 30 .... it's been like this years plants etc

Temp range from 11c to 13c

Ph 7.5 / 8

Dissolved oxygen is 8ppm
 

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JohnHuff

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The 1200L filter you have is good for about 2 fish. It's ridiculous what these ready made filters claim.

I have less fish load than you in a bigger pond with more filtration (1 shower filter, 1 moving bed reactor, 1 sand/rock/stone filter) and I know I need even more bio-filtration for next year.

With the fish load you have, you would probably need a drum filter 5-6X as big completely filled with media to handle that fish load you have.

My advice is for you to build a large capacity bio-filter to handle your fish load.
 
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