Pond still losing water...any ideas?

[JustJack]

We tried to find the leak last Saturday with no luck after exposing the entire length of pipe. There was a small pool of water coming under the deck by the waterfall so I spent the weekend moving heavy rocks to redirect the flow and minimize the overspray on both sides and it seemed to help. The most water we lost all week was about 4 inches a day until this morning, when the pond was practically empty--just barely enough water to cover my poor fish. I checked the overspray and the ground around the deck and couldn't see any evidence of that much water anywhere.

I'm at my wits end with this pond. The odd thing is that it doesn't happen all the time. It's been happening off and on ever since we moved in, but not consistently. You don't think a raccoon would be smart enough to drain the pond to try to get the fish, do you? The only reason I would even think that is because I was out there last night covering the pond with netting to catch the oak leaves and nothing was out of place, but this morning there were things in the bottom of the pond that were not there last night, but the netting was still intact. I have no idea what to think anymore.

I can take pics this afternoon if there's anything specific you need to see. I'm open to any suggestions or ideas. I refilled it this morning and so far it's still fine, but I'm afraid to go anywhere now. I don't want to come home to dead fish and an empty pond.

 

[j.w]

So you only lose water when running your pump and waterfall? So it's got to be in the pipe or leaving the falls somehow. Can you use some tubing instead of your pipes to connect to the pump and run that to the waterfall for awhile and see if it still drains the pond? If so that would eliminate the waterfall. Once you know it's the pipe for sure then I guess you can go from there to check each section. You've prolly already done all this tho so lets hope someone else can help you more

 

[stroppy]

could anyone get into your garden at night ? messing about with your pond perhaps sorry thats probably not much help either .... could you lift the pump off the bottom of the pond raise it up on bricks till you find out what the problem is ... that would at least save your fish ..photos of your set up might help someone help you more

 

[JustJack]

Yes, we turned the pump off in November because we couldn't find the leak. During that time, we only lost water to evaporation. That's why we thought it had to be the pipe, but I got down there and felt along every inch of that pipe and couldn't find a leak. Let me try to paint a pic for you until I can get out there to take some....

The whole thing is on level ground so the waterfall is elevated on a wooden platform in the back corner of the yard and hidden by stacked up rocks. It flows into a shallow bog area that flows down into the catfish pond, which is 4 ft. deep. From there, it flows down into the koi pond (also 4 ft. deep), which curves back around the deck. So the whole thing makes a U shape. The length of pipe under the deck that runs from the koi pond to the waterfall is about 25 ft. and the only part of the ponds that has ever lost water is the koi pond, so it seems like it has to be lost somewhere along that length of pipe, doesn't it?

 

[stroppy]

another thought could it be leaking at your filters ?

 

[JustJack]

Stroppy, that's what I thought, too, but I just don't know. The guy built this fence so he could remove the front panels to get a trailer in so neither side locks, but there's nothing else missing or moved or anything.

But you got me thinking about something else--maybe the problem is with the pump. If that's the case, what do I look for and how would I know? I can't post pics until I get off work this afternoon.

 

[stroppy]

depends what type of pump it is ... i dont know much about pumps hopefully someone else might ..

 

[JustJack]

I don't have a clue. It's hidden under rocks and a large milk crate. I don't even know if I can get to it and hubby definitely can't get in there. Looks like we might have to call the neighbor again.

 

[j.w]

So the pump sits inside some kind of shelter box outside the pond and you can't get at it to check it out...................? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, that sounds like it might be your problem cuz you can't find it anywhere else. Maybe where the pipe attaches to the pump or a fitting or gasket in the pump has given way. You really need to get at that pump! So even when you turn the pump off it has drained? I suppose the water can still siphon through the pump even when it's turned off and could just drain out? I'm just throwing things up in the air not really knowing of course for sure

 

[JustJack]

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. It's a submersible pump that sits at the bottom of the pond. And no, the water doesn't drain when the pump is off. I just don't understand why it only leaks sometimes. Maybe something is loose and the fish are bumping it? That's one of their hiding spots.

 

[j.w]

Ok then if your pump is in the water that can't be the problem. It has to be your pipes or your filter (your filter is outside the pond right?). That small pool of water under the deck is your biggest clue so far. At least you are in Florida and not in a freezing climate so you will just have to take it inch by inch. If you could cause a bit more pressure in your pipes so that the pump would push the water out of any weak spot to show where the leak is maybe that would help? Can you disconnect it from your filter and put some kind of release valve on the end of the pipe to only allow a certain amt of water to come out? If nothing shows leaking in your pipes then on to the filter. You gotta check that filter

 

[JustJack]

Okay, these are pics I took right after we moved in. I have one more hour of work and then I can get out there and take better pics. We have checked the filter and didn't see anything wrong there, and since I moved those rocks around that little pool of water under the deck is gone so it isn't that anymore either. I don't think overspray could cause 3 feet of water to disappear in one night. Also, the ground behind the filter area is not that wet--not 3 ft. worth anyway. I just don't know where the water is going.

 

[mogsie]

the only way you are going to solve this is by systematically checking your whole system from one end to the other, pipes, fittings, water features everything, if you know you are going to have dry weather you could put some sheets of news paper down under your pipework and waterfall, this will help show up any leaks you may have.

 

[JustJack]

The pipes are buried underneath the deck--25 ft of pipe. I dug out enough to get my hand under it and ran it the whole length of the pipe and couldn't feel any water. We were sure that's where the problem was. The first thing we did was clean the filter and check for any leaks there, but then it got too cold to work on it. We turned the pump off in November and it didn't leak at all until we turned it back on last weekend. It's a tight squeeze, but I think I can fit back there so I'm going to get in there behind the waterfall and see if I missed anything.

 

[DrDave]

Is this a submersible pump going to the filter/waterfall. or is there other claptrap in there like skimmers and bottom drains?