Pond Update


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Hi All,

As you may remember I have been struggling with green tainted water, not thick green pea soup and floating particles (which I do not think is algae).

I tested my water today, here are the results:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
PH: 7.5

There you have it. No more Nitrates. What are these floating particles and how do I get rid of them! My pond USED to be crystal clear. I bought some product that promised to clump the particles together but then I read the label that some ingredients cause cancer and its hazardous to animals drinking from the pond and many other warnings so I returned it.

Right now I am cleaning the filter with the quilt batting every day (and it needs it!) twice a day would be better. If I leave it two days, I can see the pond getting worse. My problem is I am heading on for two week vacation pretty soon, so I need to resolve this pretty quick.

Thoughts?
 
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Thoughts you need a flucculant to clump everything togther or perhaps a filter that can handle both the detritus and the greem water , look on the net there are plenty of algae clearing products try crystal by Tetra

Dave
 
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sissy

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Just make sure this time your fish do not get overfed like last time .
 

j.w

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I have not used it but others here use it. Think someone here posted this awhile back and I saved it and added other info to it as I got it. Supposed to kill string algae, get rid of tannins, and other yucky stuff.
You can buy it on Ebay either kosher or not. Don't know what the difference is between them.





Sodium Percarbonate Sodium percarbonate can be purchased (without the fancy "use me in your pond" packaging) for 1/10th the price. Just google it. I buy it from a soap making supplier. Same stuff that's sold as waterfall and rock cleaner - and also will clean algae off your patio, roof, etc. And yes, it's perfectly safe - breaks down into hydrogen peroxide and soda ash when it comes in contact with water. I do not expect the percarbonate to have a noticeable effect on a mature biofilter. Reduce the application rate for situations where there is less for the sodium percarbonate to control, probably to a few tablespoons per 1000 gallons per week instead of the 2 pounds per 1000 gallons per week I used to clean up my dirty water garden ponds here at the end of winter and the start of spring. The stringy algae dies and in about a day starts breaking loose. You gotta net out the dead algae at this point or it will plug whatever your mechanical filter system may be. But it has a quite different character than live stringy algae and is much easier to net and remove from the pond. The sodium carbonate will become entangled in the stringy algae then start to hydrolyze making a high concentration of hydrogen peroxide at the strings of algae, and then the algae dies. This takes a few hours, and you will see "bubbling action" from the action of the hydrogen peroxide on the stringy algae. I did not bother using a spoon, I just poured the sodium percarbonate straight from the 2 pound jar onto the stringy algae from above. Worked for me in these two "water garden" ponds, deeper ponds may need a different solids distribution technique. The sodium percarbonate does not immediately dissolve, that is a good thing since you want it to hydrolyze and make the hydrogen peroxide on the stringy algae itself. You will see the pond water start to clear of the "clouds" of stringy algae by the second day as you remove the dead algae. Also, any dead crud on the botton floats to the top to be easily netted out of the pond. A good thing, IMO. The filters were on, and had been on all Winter, and are oversized for the load, in both of the ponds where I have been using sodium percarbonate to clean the pond and kill the algae. Certainly sodium percarbonate should NOT be used in a pond with no circulation or filter system. I don't like the stringy algae. It is ugly, and makes a pond ugly, and the purpose of the pond is to be something lovely and relaxing in my yard. So out will come the sodium percarbonate if I have a serious string algae problem. Sodium percarbonate clears up the brown color in tanins in the water. So, YES, it does that. The LC50 (dose at which 50% of the fish die if the dose remains active for two days and has nothing to react it away) of sodium percarbonate is 0.6 pounds per 1000 gallons. If there is something there like stringy algae or bottom yuck in the pond the hydrogen peroxide will be all gone in a few hours, so I indeed dosed my dirty water garden ponds with an initial dose of a pound per 1000 gallons, then used another pound per 1000 gallons the rest of the week to complete the cleanup. Don't use a pound per 1000 gallons in a relatively clean pond, it would be too much. If the brown color isn't gone, there is still stuff to consume the sodium percarbonate and its reaction product hydrogen peroxide.
 

Meyer Jordan

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Hi All,

As you may remember I have been struggling with green tainted water, not thick green pea soup and floating particles (which I do not think is algae).

I tested my water today, here are the results:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
PH: 7.5

There you have it. No more Nitrates. What are these floating particles and how do I get rid of them! My pond USED to be crystal clear. I bought some product that promised to clump the particles together but then I read the label that some ingredients cause cancer and its hazardous to animals drinking from the pond and many other warnings so I returned it.

Right now I am cleaning the filter with the quilt batting every day (and it needs it!) twice a day would be better. If I leave it two days, I can see the pond getting worse. My problem is I am heading on for two week vacation pretty soon, so I need to resolve this pretty quick.

Thoughts?
First, Great news and congratulations on getting the Nitrate level down.That should resolve the 'green water' side of your problem.
The floating particles that you mention are what is termed Total Suspended Solids (TSS) and may be comprised of both organic and inorganic material. In your case, it is most certainly caused by the Iquana poop. Filtering, as you are doing, is one method of removal. The other is the use of a Flocculant as Dave54 mentioned. The safest and most effective would be agricultural gypsum. It can be found at Garden Centers and Farm Supply stores. It is completely safe and benign. The gypsum causes the suspended particles to clump and sink to the bottom of the pond where it can be removed later. Sadly, this may be an ongoing maintenance issue because of the continued presence of the Iquanas, but the gypsum should be relatively inexpensive. You do NOT need an algaecide.
 

Meyer Jordan

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I have not used it but others here use it. Think someone here posted this awhile back and I saved it and added other info to it as I got it. Supposed to kill string algae, get rid of tannins, and other yucky stuff.
You can buy it on Ebay either kosher or not. Don't know what the difference is between them.





Sodium Percarbonate Sodium percarbonate can be purchased (without the fancy "use me in your pond" packaging) for 1/10th the price. Just google it. I buy it from a soap making supplier. Same stuff that's sold as waterfall and rock cleaner - and also will clean algae off your patio, roof, etc. And yes, it's perfectly safe - breaks down into hydrogen peroxide and soda ash when it comes in contact with water. I do not expect the percarbonate to have a noticeable effect on a mature biofilter. Reduce the application rate for situations where there is less for the sodium percarbonate to control, probably to a few tablespoons per 1000 gallons per week instead of the 2 pounds per 1000 gallons per week I used to clean up my dirty water garden ponds here at the end of winter and the start of spring. The stringy algae dies and in about a day starts breaking loose. You gotta net out the dead algae at this point or it will plug whatever your mechanical filter system may be. But it has a quite different character than live stringy algae and is much easier to net and remove from the pond. The sodium carbonate will become entangled in the stringy algae then start to hydrolyze making a high concentration of hydrogen peroxide at the strings of algae, and then the algae dies. This takes a few hours, and you will see "bubbling action" from the action of the hydrogen peroxide on the stringy algae. I did not bother using a spoon, I just poured the sodium percarbonate straight from the 2 pound jar onto the stringy algae from above. Worked for me in these two "water garden" ponds, deeper ponds may need a different solids distribution technique. The sodium percarbonate does not immediately dissolve, that is a good thing since you want it to hydrolyze and make the hydrogen peroxide on the stringy algae itself. You will see the pond water start to clear of the "clouds" of stringy algae by the second day as you remove the dead algae. Also, any dead crud on the botton floats to the top to be easily netted out of the pond. A good thing, IMO. The filters were on, and had been on all Winter, and are oversized for the load, in both of the ponds where I have been using sodium percarbonate to clean the pond and kill the algae. Certainly sodium percarbonate should NOT be used in a pond with no circulation or filter system. I don't like the stringy algae. It is ugly, and makes a pond ugly, and the purpose of the pond is to be something lovely and relaxing in my yard. So out will come the sodium percarbonate if I have a serious string algae problem. Sodium percarbonate clears up the brown color in tanins in the water. So, YES, it does that. The LC50 (dose at which 50% of the fish die if the dose remains active for two days and has nothing to react it away) of sodium percarbonate is 0.6 pounds per 1000 gallons. If there is something there like stringy algae or bottom yuck in the pond the hydrogen peroxide will be all gone in a few hours, so I indeed dosed my dirty water garden ponds with an initial dose of a pound per 1000 gallons, then used another pound per 1000 gallons the rest of the week to complete the cleanup. Don't use a pound per 1000 gallons in a relatively clean pond, it would be too much. If the brown color isn't gone, there is still stuff to consume the sodium percarbonate and its reaction product hydrogen peroxide.
According to the MSDS for Soda Ash, the level at which it is toxic to algae, it is also toxic to Daphnia and other fresh water invertebrates in a much shorter time span, 1/3 of the exposure time listed for algae.
 

j.w

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People here say they use it w/good results is all I know w/no harm to their fish. I have not used it so cannot speak on it other than pass on what we have discussed here in the past. Does it matter that is kills Daphnia? We aren't putting it out into the wild just in our own ponds. It isn't killing the snails in peoples ponds that I know use it. It's not killing their plants or fish either.
 

Meyer Jordan

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People here say they use it w/good results is all I know w/no harm to their fish. I have not used it so cannot speak on it other than pass on what we have discussed here in the past. Does it matter that is kills Daphnia? We aren't putting it out into the wild just in our own ponds. It isn't killing the snails in peoples ponds that I know use it. It's not killing their plants or fish either.
It disrupts the aquatic food chain by being toxic to invertebrates. This reduces the diversity in a pond and diversity has been proven to be one of the stabilizing and strengthening factors in any environment. As such, it can not be called pond friendly or even environmentally friendly when used in this manner.
 

j.w

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So far I have managed my pond w/o it and perhaps I will continue doing so. Don't want to do anything that could harm my fish.
 

Meyer Jordan

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Hydrogen peroxide produces the same results and is completely safe. Why would anyone use a compound of peroxide and soda ash instead? Sometimes I do not understand peoples' reasoning!
 
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My only question is, why do you need to GO on vacation? You already live in paradise, hehe
 

Meyer Jordan

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Here is an article I found on using this product. I also read at the bottom it is harmful to bees and other insects if allowed to drift. Might want to be very careful those of you who are using this.
View attachment 78155
View attachment 78157
View attachment 78158
Great informative post, j.w.. What I find really troublesome is that there are many other 'Solution to your pond problem' products on the market where the manufacturers only provide the information that will entice you to purchase said product. Failing to tell the buyer that as much, if not more, harm as good will be the result of the products use. But wait, they have a product that will correct that also!!! What a racket!
 
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Here's the thread on koiphen that I first stumbled on when I was battling string algae in our new pond. We had used a few products that worked (D-Solv, Green-Clean) but they were so expensive for repeat dosing. That's when I learned that those products were nothing more than sodium percarbonate packaged as a pond product and marked up 2000%. Now we buy and use sodium percarbonate to clean our waterfalls and as a "pond lift" product in the spring. Sprinkle a few handfuls over the surface of the pond and debris from the bottom will come floating to the top to be easily skimmed.

http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?109717-Sodium-percarbonate-uses-in-fish-ponds

I wouldn't doubt that it can be harmful to invertebrates - the smallest members of the ecosystem are generally harmed first. When you get rid of string algae, do you imagine there is no animal life that might be living in that algae? But we don't like it in our ponds so we kill it off. The toxicity of sodium percarbonate depends upon two things - the size of the dosage, obviously, but also the amount of string algae present. If you have string algae to "activate" the oxidation, the product dissipates rapidly. The danger comes with too large a dose or too clean a pond. So as with any chemical compound in your pond use it at your own risk. If the potential risk to other pond life is a concern to you, then I would avoid any chemical products honestly.

For example - here's the MSDS for H
2O2 - Hydrogen Peroxide:

Ecotoxicity: Fish: Carp: LC50 = 42 mg/L; 48 Hr; Unspecified Fathead Minnow: LC50 = 16.4 mg/L; 96 Hr; Fresh water Fathead Minnow: NOEC = 5 mg/L; 96 Hr; Fresh water flea Daphnia: EC50 = 2.4 mg/L; 48 Hr; Fresh water Channel catfish: LC50 = 37.4 mg/L; 96 Hr

So there's a toxicity level for hydrogen peroxide, too. The smaller the organism the smaller the toxic dose.
 

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This is a link to a more detailed toxicity report for Hydrogen peroxide and Sodium percarbonate.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CEAQFjAF&url=http://www.mass.gov/eea/docs/agr/pesticides/aquatic/sodium-carbonate-peroxyhydrate-and-hydrogen-peroxide.pdf&ei=LFHQVMiMDcauyATcoYGACA&usg=AFQjCNGmPVUCWKEXAgZn-MnsDW8LwI7iJQ&sig2=XSpZqrBEb6xwI8ox-hpJNg&bvm=bv.85076809,d.aWw

It is because these treatments bring some level of toxicity to an aquatic eco-system is why I have never used them or recommend them. It is so much more non-intrusive and ultimately cheaper to remove the cause of what in many cases is a cosmetic problem than to slowly and incrementally destroy a pond's eco-system. Other treatments such as Koi clay, gypsum and similar minerals are basically non-reactive chemically and as a result do no damage to any trophic level of an aquatic eco-system.
 
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My only question is, why do you need to GO on vacation? You already live in paradise, hehe
Well the draw back of living where everyone else vacations is all the tourists! LOL! Just kidding. My husband is from Seattle, so we are heading there for a few weeks to see his family. His Grandfather turns 100. So we are having a party.

So will peroxide help these floating bits clump?

I've had to net the pond now (thanks to a cattle egret) and normally makes it worse as I can't scoop the bottom everyday (although with the net you'd think the bottom wouldn't need to everyday). I'm pretty sick of cleaning the filters every day. I really don't understand what has changed so much that I could go from crystal clear to problems for months now.
 

sissy

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Peroxide will not clump it it will only help algae die .It turns it white and you can brush it off or turn on pump again and it will go into the filter .It works better if the area is in full sun or it is hot out .I always turn off my pump and allow it to work for 15 or 20 minutes .It is great in a bath with baking soda to adjust your own body ph also and makes your skin feel soft and it can help with sunburn .
 
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First, Great news and congratulations on getting the Nitrate level down.That should resolve the 'green water' side of your problem.
The floating particles that you mention are what is termed Total Suspended Solids (TSS) and may be comprised of both organic and inorganic material. In your case, it is most certainly caused by the Iquana poop. Filtering, as you are doing, is one method of removal. The other is the use of a Flocculant as Dave54 mentioned. The safest and most effective would be agricultural gypsum. It can be found at Garden Centers and Farm Supply stores. It is completely safe and benign. The gypsum causes the suspended particles to clump and sink to the bottom of the pond where it can be removed later. Sadly, this may be an ongoing maintenance issue because of the continued presence of the Iquanas, but the gypsum should be relatively inexpensive. You do NOT need an algaecide.

Okay, some good news. As I mentioned I cleared the vacant lot so 80% of the iguanas are gone. Only a small few are left hanging around. I am seeing far less iguana mess around.

I think I saw gypsum at the garden store, how do I use this? My pond is about 2200 - but its oddly shaped and various depths, so that is my husbands very rough estimate. I would rather say its 2000gall or less for safety sake.

I am cleaning the filters daily and its a real drag! Some days the pond looks better and the next it looks terrible. Since I put the net on it looks terrible. I plan to take the net off tomorrow. I am beginning to suspect that my naughty fish have dug all the rocks off the top layer of my lily pots and are digging the soil and that's causing some of the issue. So I'm going to take out all the pots tomorrow, top them up with soil, add a new heavier layer of rocks and see how it goes.

Here's what the filter looks like everyday. The black net bag is what holds the lava rock. The other is the quilt batting. EVERY day it looks like this or worse.

filter.jpg
filter1.jpg
 

sissy

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Is that just from the dirt in the air .Do you also have an aerator .Reason I wonder because of the color of the stuff .It is not green like I thought it would be ,it is grey so that would be dirt .I do know koi clay helps suspend and clear particles in water and is great for the fish but it also makes your water milky colored for a day or two
 
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sissy

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If you are coming to the U.S. I would buy koi clay here and put it in your luggage or ship it home via U.P.S or whatever .Even extra quilt batting I am sure could be bought cheaper here and you can use the quilt batting to wrap the koi clay in for shipment .I know my son has no problems shipping over seas as he has several going out today to Australia and Hawaii and even 1 to Japan .He is shipping via the U.S postal service
 

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