Pondless Waterfall Questions

[Swaptrex]

Hello all,

Ive been lurking the forum for a few months. Want to start on a pondless waterfall soon. Roughly 15ft in length / 5ft in width / and a gradual slope (already in place) of about 5ft. I am pool contractor, but have no experience with koi ponds or waterfalls. I have a 1hp and a 1.5hp pentair superflo pool pump in my inventory. I was considering using one of those, most likely the 1.5hp, plumbed to a pool main drain (channel style) below a series of 6 plastic pallets I can get for $15 each in place of a basin. I will get pictures of the area soon as well as a sketch. J already have all the rock (other than pebble) from old landscaping jobs around pools. Would like opinions on this thought process. Thanks I’m advance.

 

[Swaptrex]

Or would it just be easier to go this route but have the waterfall fed to a 300 gallon or so preformed pond with the main drain centered on the bottom?

 

[combatwombat]

Welcome! Main drain for a pondless waterfall would be considered an "odd choice" around here. But hey, if you know pool stuff and you have the equipment already, why not?

Plastic pallets for the void space in the basin can work. Depends on the duty level of the pallet and the size of rocks you're planning to use. I bought some light duty pallets for a similar purpose and decided they were not strong enough to support point loads from larger boulders without crushing. Pallets are better for evenly distributed loads. If you have smaller boulders or just gravel, probably fine.

Pump selection is a bit more art than science. Depends on what you're looking for—gentle stream/falls or rushing river/crashing falls. Rule of thumb is about 100 GPH per inch of waterfall weir for an "average falls." That only applies to your widest falls. All the smaller ones will be stronger. So figure out how wide your widest waterfall weir will be and multiply that by 100 to find the flow rate for a "generally pleasing waterfall." If had a 1hp and a1.5hp pump laying around, I'd just test the smaller one first and, if I wanted more, swap it out for the bigger one.

 

[Mmathis]

Hello and welcome!

 

[j.w]

@Swaptrex

 

[GBBUDD]

A one hp is probably 8 to 12,000 gph This can make a substantial flow on a water fall but as you know running such for even 8 hrs can add up on the electric bill at least it's noticable here in the bs state of ct where our rates are among the highest in the country. I'm running approximately 8,000 gph over my falls

I strongly recommend you tube pondless and pond water falls and streams and disect them i have some gathered together here https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/some-very-impressive-pond-builds.26353/

 

[Swaptrex]

Thanks so far everyone. When I got home this evening I tried to picture it and map it out in the yard. More difficult than a pool for some reason haha.

 

[GBBUDD]

Take a picture of your yard i love dreaming and layout and for someone who knows the trade just needs a couple natural tricks to make it look all natural could be fun

 

[Lisak1]

i love dreaming and layout and for someone

@GBBUDD prepping for his next career as a pond builder.

 

[Swaptrex]

I’ll make sure to take a picture this evening. Lately I work 6-7 everyday. I’m exhausted to say the least, but want to get the waterfall done before I have company in the fall.

Since I’m leaning toward the pallet method - I’m trying to decide what the best placement of the main drain would be. Since the channel drain I would be using has 3 2” outlets I will probably plumb all 3 to a T to the main 2” flex line back to the pump. However trying to decide if I should mount it on the bottom pallet or dig out below the pallet. With the latter, I worry about settling and putting pressure on my fittings on the underside of the drain down the road. They will all be street 90’s, sweeps would be too awkward I believe. Would appreciate any opinions even though this isn’t a common approach.

I also thought about installing 1-2 return fittings somewhere near the middle of the feature.

 

[GBBUDD]

I worry about settling and putting pressure on my fittings on the underside of the drain down the road

Place the fitting in concrete like you would a pool and then run the fabric and liner. @Swaptrex i think a lot of your answers and some questions you may not have come up with can be found in my build which can be found in the link below

13 hour days are brutal, hope it's not 6 or worse 7s

 

[Swaptrex]

Yeah, I may go the hydraulic cement route around those fittings. At least then they’d be good for 15+ years.

Yes, it’s been 6-7 days lately and in this south FL sun. I’m a walking zombie haha. I look forward to checking out your build.

 

[Swaptrex]

Also, anything you recommend to put over those pallets, like aluminum mesh that’s a slightly tighter knit than the pallets to keep the straggler pebbles out?

 

[combatwombat]

Also, anything you recommend to put over those pallets, like aluminum mesh that’s a slightly tighter knit than the pallets to keep the straggler pebbles out?

Aluminum chicken wire can work. Plastic may be a better option. Also try to layer your gravel so that larger goes in first and smaller layers into/over that.

 

[Swaptrex]

Here are the photos. The slope obviously being the spillway starting point and I’d like to end somewhere near the gravel. Those palms are coming out unfortunately.