Question about wildlife vs goldfish

[pecan]

So I just finished a wildlife bog of sorts. It has a small pond at the end of it. The pond is about 4' long by 2.5' wide and just over 2.5' deep. The total volume of water including pond and bog is about 600 gallons I think.

I want it to be very low maintenance with the only tasks being topping it off every so often and I want frogs and other critters to make themselves at home.

I have a bunch of comets in our big pond and am wondering if after the bog cycles for a few weeks if I should add 2 comets to the little pond to help feed the plants. I don't want to deal with maintenance and I don't want fish to eat tadpoles.

What do you all think? Should I add comets or not?

Here are some pics of the new bog with small pond.

 

[JBtheExplorer]

I have a bunch of comets in our big pond and am wondering if after the bog cycles for a few weeks if I should add 2 comets to the little pond to help feed the plants. I don't want to deal with maintenance and I don't want fish to eat tadpoles.
View attachment 70885 View attachment 70886

My adult frogs had no problem living with fish last year. It was pretty funny at times. Usually one of the comets would go up to the frogs foot and the frog would move away. As for tadpoles, Comets will eat them, and they will eat them fast.

 

[pecan]

Thanks JB!

My primary concern is the fish eating all the froggy babies. I cannot guarantee whether we will even get frogs to visit the new set up but I would love it if they did and built it much more frog friendly than the big pond. Maybe some sort of frog chant might work to call them in? Or maybe it's like Field of Dreams... If you build it they will come, fingers crossed.

 

[JohnHuff]

My primary concern is if any of your guests ever open that door and fall to the ground. But if you don't want to deal with maintenance, then don't add any fish. No fish, no worries.

 

[shakaho]

Sure, put some goldfish in. They may eat some tadpoles, or they might not touch them. I would want fish in there to take care of mosquito larvae.

 

[pecan]

My primary concern is if any of your guests ever open that door and fall to the ground. But if you don't want to deal with maintenance, then don't add any fish. No fish, no worries.

Ha! Valid concern I had not considered.... But hopefully no "guests" will be exiting the back door of our new bedroom LOL

We are putting stairs there this weekend and once we pass final inspection we are tearing out the stairs and adding a deck (next spring) that will sort of hang over the little pond.

 

[pecan]

Sure, put some goldfish in. They may eat some tadpoles, or they might not touch them. I would want fish in there to take care of mosquito larvae.

That was a consideration. But I did drop an air stone in the small pond that moves the water enough to prevent the blood suckers from laying eggs.

I also ordered a new pump that should be here in the next couple of days. going from the 700 GPH to an 1150 GPH so the water in the pots and the small pool in the gravel will be moving much more. I also considered adding mosquito dunks just to be safe.

 

[bettasngoldfish]

love your new pond! Personally I would put goldfish in it

But if your worried about them eating other critters that come to the pond maybe you can add some smaller fish? Rosy reds or mosquito fish would work.

 

[j.w]

Yep that's what I was thinking, maybe some kind of really tiny type fish that would eat the skeeters and not the frog eggs or at least not all of them. You would have to find a variety that would live in your climate over winter. Think the Rosy Reds might freeze in too shallow of water. There are some hardier types of minnows that might live there in your bog pond area.
Found online:
White Cloud mountain Minnow- Have heard they can survive 5 degree temperature, also biologist near the Saint Lawrence river consider them a risk to establish in the wild so i assume there is at least some possibility they could live in an outdoor pond over winter. Have heard people in New York have successfully overwintered them.

 

[studiovette]

Very nice looking.. I agree fish are a must

 

[pecan]

I am little hesitant to add any type of "little fish" after the mosquito fish debacle of the big pond

I had the mosquito abatement folks drop off a dozen in the big pond before I added any other fish. I was told they "disappear in the winter" but I "had to swear to not release them into any water ways"... Which set off a couple red flags...

1. Fish don't just "disappear" in my head I am envisioning a mosquito fish rapture come Jan 1...
2. If they are in fact raptured every January... then why is it such a big deal about releasing them in local water ways...

Well I got my answers the next year and you will be happy to know that mosquito fish do not "disappear" nor are they raptured in Jan each year.

By July the second year, they were so thick my 21' x 17' pond surface was crawling with mosquito fish with no space for anything else.

When I feed my other fish they attack the pellets in swarms and push all the other fish out of the way which only helps in their population explosion.

I am to the point now where I net them out every chance I get and put them into the garden compost pile. Last July I filled half of a 5 gallon bucket with nothing but mosquito fish

The mosquito abatement folks now have a standing warning that if they ever enter our property again, they will be shot on sight. (kidding, I only shoot revenuers and census takers LOL)

The only way I will ever be rid of them is if I completely drain the big pond and let it set dry for a period of time and that wont happen until there is something wrong with the liner or I pull the trigger on digging deeper.

So you can see my hesitation by going with anything other than comets...

Edit: If I did go with comets, I would just move two of the smallest from the big pond into here each spring and move them back to the big pond to over winter. Then the next year a couple more of the smallest.

 

[bettasngoldfish]

Oh wow, I didn't know about your experience with the mosquito fish

Putting a couple small comets in for the summer and moving them to your main pond later sounds good to me

 

[j.w]

Holy Mosquito Fish..............yes don't put those in there! Go for the 2 little comets and forget about the others. Problem solved! Hope none of those skeeter fish eggs.....if they do lay eggs...........don't end up on bird legs and into your bog pond

 

[shakaho]

There are lots of similar stories about mosquito fish. A lot of the minnows, including the White Cloud Mountain, like flowing water, so I don't think this pond would be ideal. I read that this minnow does not do well in heat. Goldfish prefer still water so they should do well.

I would worry about a population explosion if you put two small comet goldfish in the pond. Goldfish can reproduce at a very small size. I had babies this spring from last year's fall babies who were no more than 1 1/2" standard length. In a small pond with mature pond-type goldfish (commons, comets, shubunkin, and wakin) I have virtually zero survival of fry. The big fish gobble up every egg. The young parents are much less effective at "hatch control."

 

[pecan]

Mosquito fish lay live young rather than eggs which from what I hear has a part in them being so invasive. I am concerned by just the proximity of the new bog/small pond to the big pond. I wanted to use water or muck from the big pond to try and get the new bog/small pond cycled faster but was too afraid that they may catch a ride.

Last night I stopped by the local nursery. They have a huge pond set up and greenhouse ponds. I talked to Sean the pond guy there who I have been talking to for years about ponding. I showed him pictures of the new set up and told him I am hoping for frogs

He said that leopard frogs are native to our area and that California tree frogs have traveled into the nursery on plants and actually established themselves in the area. He said out of all his tanks/ponds there the frogs are very specific and only lay eggs in the ones without fish. So with that in mind I think I will just forgo the fish all together.

Thinking about going back in a few weeks and see if he has some extra tadpoles swimming around I can get from him