Question on water change

Discussion in 'Water Chemistry' started by Gemma, Sep 8, 2017.

  1. Gemma

    Gemma

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    I was wondering .... doing water changes, is it best to first drain the water and then replace it, or have running water going into the pond on one end, while pumping water out on the other end?

    I understand that doing it the second way gives no idea of the percentage of water exchanged, but I'm a bit concerned over the period of time that I have to keep the waterfalls off and the liner dry, when I take all the water out and then refill
     
    Gemma, Sep 8, 2017
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  2. Gemma

    MitchM

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    What is the purpose of a water change?
    (loaded question) I hope you don't mind.;)
     
    MitchM, Sep 8, 2017
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  3. Gemma

    DutchMuch Lord Of The Aquascapes!

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    removes excess nutrients, possible ammonia nitrites nitrates, etc. And bacteria in the water, overall makes water cleaner and clearer for a temporary amount of time depending on your water change schedule. Water changes also temporarily put oxygen or up oxygen levels in the water. Water changes do make your fish more happy to for the time being, all the nice clean cool water. Same with plants you will notice all your submerged plants false pearling during a water change.
     
    DutchMuch, Sep 8, 2017
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  4. Gemma

    DutchMuch Lord Of The Aquascapes!

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    no, take out 50% or so, and refill it separate times.
     
    DutchMuch, Sep 8, 2017
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  5. Gemma

    MitchM

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    Can you explain:
    Why are there excess nutrients in the first place?
    Why do you need to remove bacteria?
    How is clearer water - better? Is not a certain level of humic substances actually healthier for both fish and plants?
    The other factors you mentioned are subjective, are they not? (happy fish, happy plants)
     
    MitchM, Sep 8, 2017
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  6. Gemma

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Same question here. In many cases it is more deleterious to a pond than efficacious.
    A small water change will give 'small', ineffective results. A large water change totally disrupts whatever ecological balance the pond may possess and it is a stressor for the fish. What many perceive as a 'happy' reaction from fish are really observing reaction to stress.
    Water changes may be periodically essential to some aquaria, but are, except in pollutant-related emergencies, totally non-essential or even beneficial to ponds.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Sep 8, 2017
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  7. Gemma

    DutchMuch Lord Of The Aquascapes!

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    I'm 16 I don't know these huge words mean "subjective"
    ill go from first to last question
    Bad bacteria, possibly bad bacteria, removing bacteria isn't a bad thing and its not necessarily a good thing you just bluntly remove it. bacteria renews very quickly weather its beneficial or not, depending on "what" bacteria we are talking about.
    Idk what the second part of what you said means mr. mad scientist. Clearer water isn't better, I didn't say that did I? no. I said it makes your water nice and clear. Clear water isn't bad either. It has its cons and pros. Like everything else. and Pros out ways the cons.
     
    DutchMuch, Sep 8, 2017
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  8. Gemma

    DutchMuch Lord Of The Aquascapes!

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    Sorry meyer, I highly disagree. maybe if your waving a huge tube around the water and chasing the fish with it, itll be stressful. A water change like Regular. Is not stressful but is the exact opposite.
     
    DutchMuch, Sep 8, 2017
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  9. Gemma

    Gemma

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    Just regular maintenance I change about 20% every 2 or 3 weeks
    50% would be 1,500gls, I thing it's a bit much not to mention it would take me hours to refill
     
    Gemma, Sep 8, 2017
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  10. Gemma

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Do you have any data to support that statement?
     
    Meyer Jordan, Sep 8, 2017
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  11. Gemma

    Gemma

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    I thought regular water changes are recommended for fish health,by all pond experts, I guess I was wrong!
     
    Gemma, Sep 8, 2017
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  12. Gemma

    MitchM

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    Removing bacteria is a bad thing.
    What you want is a healthy aquatic ecosystem that accommodates all bacteria at balanced levels. That can only be achieved by a stable environment where no bacteria is allowed to populate beyond a sustainable level.
    What a water change does is reset the chemical parameters and requires bacteria populations to balance themselves out again.
    That is called instability. Instability is not good for your fish.

    You referred to happy fish, but how do you know they are happy? Is it because they are more active and darting around? That may be as a result from a water change and the fish are irritated as a result.
    Whenever the chemical parameters of the water changes, the fishes osmoregulation must re equalize; see this:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmoregulation

    Basically, the fish are irritated because of the water change.

    I wish I was a mad scientist, then I could focus on what interests me and someone else could pay the bills.;)
    (maybe I could ask my wife to dress up and get me a coffee and clean the test tubes, but I'm not brave enough to request that)

    I know you follow Tom Barr, but he focuses on plant growth and colouration, not aquatic ecosystem health.

    .
     
    MitchM, Sep 8, 2017
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  13. Gemma

    Tula

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    @Gemma , This is the first year I've pumped water out of the pond, but it's necessary as part of back washing our filter. In previous years I just topped off the pond and sometimes let it over flow. Now mind you, I don't have lots of plants due to the design of my pond and koi, but I believe my water is clearer ( I understand not necessarily better ) with this method.
     
    Tula, Sep 8, 2017
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  14. Gemma

    Gemma

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    I didn't mean to start a debate over pros and cons of water changes! I just wanted to know the best method when I (for whatever reason) do a partial water change :)

    @Tula My filter doesn't back flush, I just rinse the Media pad, and my plants are all on the upper section completely separate from the pond
    How much water do you change and how long does it take you to refill the pond?
     
    Gemma, Sep 8, 2017
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  15. Gemma

    MitchM

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    Sorry Gemma, I didn't mean to start a debate that's not wanted.
    My answer (opinion) then, to your question, is to remove old water before you add new water for maximum effect of a water change.
    My only advice would be to keep the water change percentage small and keep the new water parameters as close as possible to the old water parameters.
     
    MitchM, Sep 8, 2017
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  16. Gemma

    brokensword Not all those who wander are lost

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    gemma; in 6 years, I've never changed any water at all. I do fill-ups depending on if the bog or stream is diverting water, or because of evaporation, but no water changes at all. And I have nearly 100 6-12" gf in 2700 gallons. But I have lots of plants and a bog/wetlands upflow filter plus waterfall. And I am on a well re water source. So, I'm one of those that doesn't prescribe periodic water changes as necessary.
     
    brokensword, Sep 8, 2017
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  17. Gemma

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    I don't do water changes either. If we get a good rain fall it gets a water change. Ow all I do is add water when needed.
     
    addy1, Sep 8, 2017
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  18. Gemma

    DutchMuch Lord Of The Aquascapes!

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    sorry I offended you
    the hobby is data to support this. Look up water changes for ponds. Or water changes.
     
    DutchMuch, Sep 8, 2017
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  19. Gemma

    DutchMuch Lord Of The Aquascapes!

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    Then you don't know tom barr.
    unethical post.
     
    DutchMuch, Sep 8, 2017
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  20. Gemma

    MitchM

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    unethical post?
    lol
     
    MitchM, Sep 8, 2017
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