Real mortar vs. the stuff in the tube

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Good morning!
I need to fill the voids between pieces of flagstone that we used to cap a concrete structure that will hold the return water to our pond.

I'm debating between filling with plain old mortar in a squeezebag vs. using a product at Home Depot (don't remember the brand for sure but it might be Sikaflex?) that fits in a standard caulk gun.

Anyone have any comments? Which is easier, whether the caulk gun product looks like mortar when it's done, etc.? I can't figure out how you would finish the synthetic product so it looked like a mortar joint. You know what I mean - real mortar is usually finished so there's a shallow groove in the joint.
 
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Dangit, I'm used to the Ubuntu Forums, where you can come back weeks later and edit your own posts. This website doesn't allow that. According to Quikrete's site, their product has sand in it and a square-tipped applicator to help make it look like the real thing.

http://www.quikrete.com/ProductLines/MortarRepair.asp

What's scary is I'm committed once I start. Can't hardly change back to traditional mortar halfway thru.
 

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Telkwa said:
Dangit, I'm used to the Ubuntu Forums, where you can come back weeks later and edit your own posts. This website doesn't allow that. According to Quikrete's site, their product has sand in it and a square-tipped applicator to help make it look like the real thing.

http://www.quikrete.com/ProductLines/MortarRepair.asp

What's scary is I'm committed once I start. Can't hardly change back to traditional mortar halfway thru.

You can always ask a Moderator to edit your posts. I have helped many that way.
 

addy1

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Telkwa said:
Good morning!
I need to fill the voids between pieces of flagstone that we used to cap a concrete structure that will hold the return water to our pond.

I'm debating between filling with plain old mortar in a squeezebag vs. using a product at Home Depot (don't remember the brand for sure but it might be Sikaflex?) that fits in a standard caulk gun.

Anyone have any comments? Which is easier, whether the caulk gun product looks like mortar when it's done, etc.? I can't figure out how you would finish the synthetic product so it looked like a mortar joint. You know what I mean - real mortar is usually finished so there's a shallow groove in the joint.

Home depot has stuff in a tube, it looks a lot like mortar, has the sand feel to it. I used some to put some mortar right next to a wood floor, didn't want the color to bleed into the wood, also the wet. You can work it like mortar to get the shallow groove, I just used a sponge and of course my finger

It worked well and is holding up fine, but you are looking at a bigger expense. And ours is inside, not sure how it would do outside. Most likely fine, you may want to read the tube. Ours is kitchen based so water etc.

I laid a bunch of flagstone in az on a patio. We used mortar and added color. It has been looking good for about 5 years now.
 

DrCase

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I have just swept mortar into the joints and used a fine mist of water to set it up.
It worked fine
 

addy1

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there you go telkwa, from two experts! the KISS principle.
 
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The problem is these are little pieces of flagstone I jigsawed together to cap the concrete well. I'll try to attach a shot.

The capstone hangs out into thin air so this won't be as simple as sanding a patio. We plan to use the same flagstone underfoot along one side of the pond, so I'll get a chance to do as the experts suggest.

I'm having some difficulty getting this "well" mated to the pond, which is under the sheet of plywood in the picture. I stuck a piece of flagstone into the notch in the well and did a trial run with a garden hose. The water sucked around the bottom side of the flagstone and drooled down the wall. So I ran a tiny bead of PL R&F Sealant along the bottom edge of the flagstone to get the water to release. I'll try that out in a few days.

The "well" is plumbed internally. There's a stout plywood stand (I slathered a thick coat of oil-based primer on the plywood) inside the well, and a plastic tub on top of the stand. The water returns from the biofilter behind the fence via PVC pipe, goes into the well thru a hole in the back, goes up to the tub via a bulkhead fitting, then the so-called plan is to have it spill out the notch you see upper right. That's where I had the problem with the water drooling instead of spilling cleanly off the piece of flagstone. The bricks down low will be covered with a sheet of EPDM, which will extend partway up the walls behind the brick. The same piece of EPDM will drape toward the pond, and I'll try to create a small cascade. Using waterfall foam I imagine.
 

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DrCase

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That looks nice
I would just set the flag stones in mortar and try to keep the joints clean as i go.
Then come back with muriatic acid and a brush to clean it all
I get some seepage under my water spillway stone also but with a good flow you wont miss it.. The only time the spill pool gets to the bottom of the spillway stone is when i turn the pump off
Your doing great job
 
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Hi, Doc -
Thanks for the encouragement. It helps. Another thought - I could probably brush off any loose dust and put some duct tape on the bottom side of the flagstone where the joints meet in thin air, then carefully mortar or use the stuff in the tube, then leave it alone for a few days before peeling off the duct tape. I've learned the hard way that mortar sags under its own weight. Imagine that. :smile:

I haven't tried out the muriatic acid yet, but plan to do some cleanup soon. A wire wheel in a drill motor has been handy for some of the rough cleaning.
 
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Just use mortar. It'll always be around. 10 years from now you may have a hard time matching up what came out of a tube (in reality, you'll have a tough time matching using mortar from a bag as well... it's the nature of the beast when matching weathered mortar).

I would be hesitant in using acid on stone. There are special cleaners for stone. Your local brick yard would have it. Just sponge away mortar with a damp sponge before it completely sets up, similar to grouting tile. To avoid a haze, change water often.... very often. After the fact (if needed) you can get clean sand (preferably sandblasting sand), and a nylon pad and clean the stone. Just dump a liberal amount of sand on the stone and scrub away.
 
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Thanks for the mortar tips & tricks! I'm learning as I go with this rockwork stuff. The internet has been helpful, but sometimes you just gotta get in there and make a mess if you know what I mean. With this masonry stuff, I've gotten the impression that there are a handful of basic rules (such as you can't expect to defy gravity with mortar) but then there are tons of little tricks that various masons use to get the desired results.

I'd read that you should avoid using a sponge because that just smears the mortar into a light haze that's impossible to remove. I think what's happening here is that each bit of advice is probably absolutely true for a particular situation, but I can't just assume that it's the case for all situations. The river rock we're using is semi-polished and not particularly absorbent, so sponging off the mortar with clean water is probly good advice.
 
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If you wait long enough for it to partially set up, it's not too bad. The best approach for filling joints is mix the mortar to a consistency of the top of crumb cake. It will appear to be too dry.... but it's not.
 

addy1

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You might want to use some construction adhesive, pl makes one that is good for outdoors and wet areas, and attach the flagstone firmly to the top before you try to mortar it. I used some of the adhesive to attach flagstone to the top of our bog wall between the bog and the pond, glued it to the liner. That stuff is ATTACHED

DSC00321.jpg
.
 
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Np-1 is a really good tube adhesive. I believe it's a polyurethane adhesive and is rated for below grade. Really good stuff!
 

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