Really bad City water

[Citizen arcane]

After some problems w/ my pond (to be discussed later) I decided to test the tap water. Using API test kits and drops I get the following:

Ammonia - .50
Nitrite - 2.0
pH - 7.4
GH - 2 drops (we have really soft water)

which is rather disturbing. After filling a 30 gallon bucket to make top off water for the pond and triple dosing the water w/ AmQuel Plus, the numbers remain the same.

Being hesitant to add this to my pond (or drink it - which we don't) I'm wondering if some light can be shed on a solution. I was thinking about point of source ionization perhaps. Any other thoughts out there?

 

[Citizen arcane]

Oh, yeah, those numbers were verified by the smae test kits when brought to one of the local fish stores. They've veried some as I've been testing daily for the last week but this is typical.

 

[sissy]

Can you look into a whole house filter I have one installed and put it in my self and stupid me keeps saying I don't have a uv and i put one inline and also put in a sediment filter .45 watt uv .We have iron in our water and after all the heavy rains I decided to put in a uv since there are lots of farms around here ,my well is over 400 ft in the ground ,I know I helped pull it last year when pump went out .I also catch rain water and used my old simple well filter bought from tractor supply inline on my hose to clean the water .I use a charcoal filter

 

[Citizen arcane]

Can you look into a whole house filter I have one installed and put it in my self and stupid me keeps saying I don't have a uv and i put one inline and also put in a sediment filter .45 watt uv .We have iron in our water and after all the heavy rains I decided to put in a uv since there are lots of farms around here ,my well is over 400 ft in the ground ,I know I helped pull it last year when pump went out .I also catch rain water and used my old simple well filter bought from tractor supply inline on my hose to clean the water .I use a charcoal filter

Thanks for the quick reply.

I'm interested in *just* filtering the water I use for water changes in my pond - so a whole house is not necessary. Rain water is out of the question here as we have acid rain due to heavy industry.

I'm still thinking point of source DI but was wondering if there's any 'miracle' products that would neutralize the ammonia and nitrites in my city water. Amquel certainly didn't do it it - this is after triple dosing and allowing the water to stand for two days.

 

[Dave 54]

We have problems with high nitrates coming through the taps during spring period when farmers are fertilizing their fields .
Here in the UK you can request your water company to come out and take a reading of just what is in the city water supply that comes through your taps.
I think a whole house filter would be the way forwards for you to go but see if they will send a chap out to take samples and give an idea just what is in your water.

rgrds

Dave

 

[gardengimp]

Could you have gotten a sour bottle of Amquel Plus by chance?

It sounds as if your source water has Chloramine. You might want to do a search on the forum for the various threads where we've discussed chloramine and solutions.

This is a short but interesting read regarding chloramine and nitrites. I might be inclined to call your water provider and ask some pointed questions. We are at the end of water main run, and our house water is crap. Before we bought our house, it destroyed the piping and most of the plumbing fixtures. We have a whole house water filter. Compared to the cost of replacing plumbing and fixtures, for us it makes sense.

I really don't think you need a whole house filter if you don't have issues inside your home. TurtleMommy (Maggie) who posts on here developed her system using hose end filters, meters and timers that I believe she got all from Amazon. As I recall though, she didn't have the nitrite values you are finding. Generally, in the pond nitrites are converted to nitrates by the biological filter. You might be able to get a sort of bio filter going in your 30 gallon container, but it would probably require an airstone. And a degree of permanence. And still might not be effective.

 

[Citizen arcane]

Thanks for the link..........interesting.

Yes, my treating plant uses chloramine. I actually had the water plant manager at my house the other day after testing 2+ ppm nitrites. He opened up two fire hydrants in my area (to cycle the water tower near me) then came by my house; I was told he recorded .49 nitrite using a spectrophotometer. I just don't *think* my reagent test can be that far off - I show 0 in my tanks and ponds - the filters are doing their thing.

A few hours ago I drew a few eight gallon buckets and dosed each w/ Amquel @ 30 ml per draw and it tested ok. Oh well.............

 

[gardengimp]

Hmm, I wonder if he recorded his readings AFTER opening the hydrants? And what it was BEFORE?

There is this thing that sticks out the ground like a capped artesian well in my next door neighbors front. That is what the city opens to flush the junk from the end of our line. I would imagine the water tests are much improved after flushing. And I'm guessing the opening of the fire hydrants near you would do much the same.

 

[Citizen arcane]

Yup me too. If there's a next time I'll have him test the same source. I knew I wasn't going anywhere after he said "we treat water for human consumption, not for fish." Well at this point I'd rather drink out of my pond than out of my faucet ;-}

 

[Mmathis]

I bought a cartridge that you add in line to your water hose. I think this particular one was good for 10,000 gals. It is supposed to neutralize chlorine, chloramines, and metals [I think]. You have to read carefully, though, because there are some that only claim to neutralize chlorine. Ordered them from AMAZON.

I had a similar situation happen after I set up a QT. Had always assumed that my city water only had chlorine added. I bought a cartridge because it would make water changes easier, but it was a "de-chlor only" cartridge. I got suspicious when my ammonia [etc.] levels were still high even after an almost 100% water change, so tested the tap water! My results were similar to yours, but water not as soft. So I ordered the other cartridge, and while the tap water still has traces of the chemicals, it's nothing like before.

 

[Citizen arcane]

I've been keeping fish for over 20 years; had saltwater fish only tanks, a 5 gallon reef tank, varied fresh water tanks along with the pond that's been aound since '04. I have some understanding.

Never have I experienced what happened to my pond three weeks ago. I believe the tap water (and complacency on my part) is the root cause of my pH crash and I don't want this to happen again..........

 

[crsublette]

Here's a good read about how AmQuel actually works and the proper instructions for AmQuel. For AmQuel Plus, I found these instructions stating, 5ml of AmQuel+ per 10gal of water will remove 3 mg/L of chloramine (as monochloramine, NH2CL) and on average more than 1.2 ppm of Ammonia, 2 ppm of nitrite, and 13 ppm of nitrate.

So, I am getting the impression you followed the instructions properly, but, as far as chloramines go, you need to know the volume of chloramines to properly treat it with AmQuel. You can use a pool test kit, from any pool or hardware store, to test the presence of chloramine in your tap water from your spicket.

How much chloramine was present at your tap's source water at that particular location being used for your pond ?? How much chloramine was present in the treated water after dosed with AmQuel Plus ??

How long are you waiting to test the water right after you treated the new water with Amquel Plus ??

I know the product says the reaction is almost instantaneous at higher pHs, but I view this with some skepticism, since I have not yet seen an ammonia test that can instantaneously create accurate results, so I am not going to assume the chemical binders are that much faster.

Since the API test kit uses two reagants, it is a salicylate test. It is the Nessler test kit, one reagant solution test, that leads to false positives, which the API is not a one solution test kit for ammonia. So, I don't think the API test kit is giving a false positive.

I am getting the impression you might be registering the ammonia that is still present due to a residual of chloramine in the water or you are not waiting long enough after dosage till the test is conducted. If you think you need to wait longer till doing a test, then you can wait for around 3~5 days, which I am told is the shelf life of the product in water for the chemical's residuals to entirely deteriorate and dissipate out of the water except for the bound ammonia.

When using an ammonia binder product with the active ingredient of sodium hydroxymethanesulfonate, this ingredient reacts with ammonia to create a non-toxic ion called aminomethylsulfinate and this ion will not ever revert back into toxic ammonia and this ion can still be consumed by bacteria.

Beyond all this, I don't know... I have never used the stuff, but I have read it used by other more avid koi hobbyists than I for their quarantine tanks, which I generally trust them due to the very high value they place on their koi. I have also heard of them using an all-around-detoxifier, like Amquel Plus, called Ultimate water conditioner (by AquaScience Research group). I don't know if these products are "one size fits all" ponds' solutions or if other particular products are simply more reliable.

To neutralize the ammonia and nitrite, you could build your self a diy'd water filter and fill it with the proper absorbant medium to take out the ammonia and nitrite, but you will still need something to remove the chloramine, such as an in-line filter or a system created by APEC or a chemical detoxifier.

Wish I could be of better help, but this is the best I can do. :neutral: