Recommendation for pond system

[JHGARDENPOND]

Hi,
Newly registered and hoping to gleem some advice from experienced members. Wife and I are in the process of interviewing a few pond builders with the intention of having Koi and other fishes. So far we have narrowed down to to builders with similar visual design concept. However, they differ quite a bit with regards to the filtration system.

If it helps, we are looking to do a small stream with a run of approximately 15 feet (2 to 3 feet wide). It will drop roughly 2 feet from start of the "waterfall" to the entrance of the pond. The pond itself is 8w x 10l x 2.5d (feet).

I don't have all the exact models or names but this is what I'm looking at so far from each installer:
Installer 1: Use a submersible pump (pondmaster) and Proline pressurized filter with UV light. No skimmer as we are not at risk for leaves based on where our house is built. Does not recommend rocks in the pond. Does not recommend mechanical filters as it's more old school design. Likes the proline filter as it has a backwash lever and it's reportedly very little maintenance; though I'm having problem locating good review or fedback for this. We would like to have two branches of water falling down the mouth of the pond and being told that this will require a two pump setup.

Installer 2: Use submersible HyDrive 3200GPH placed at the bottom of a skimmer, no UV lighting, using a mechanical/filter system that requires once a year changing, recommends rocks in the pond for ecology. He does not like the Proline pressureized filter with backflow because he feels they add a lot of maintenance/complexity. Would like to have two branches of water falling down the mouth of the pond and told that one pump is adequate for the task. Lastly recommends limited use of lava rock to help with the ecology; not sure where he will place them as I understand submerged would be problematic.

As a newbie in this arena, the internet provides overwhelming amount of information and often dated, conflicting or controversial. Based on current technology, is one design philosophy better than the other. We would like to put an emphasis on low maintenance but a healthy eco-system is far more important if the difference is appreciable.

Both installers seems very knowledgeable so having conflicting information for us un-initiated is quite confusing. Can you help educate us; feel free to add any other option not presented to us or if you have specific models that would work well for our proposed system.

Best Regards

 

[addy1]

Well I don't know the filter systems that well, but welcome to our group of pond fanatics!

don't put rocks in the bottom of the pond, they are a nightmare to keep clean (and I loved rocks in the bottom of a pond until i got smart) Also they collect anaerobic bacteria bad for your pond and fish. Within a year you won't be able to see them anyways unless you vacuum and sweep constantly.

(they like you to post in introductions first also add where you are from makes it easier for us to help you, all different areas of the country have different issues)

Not sure about the guy wanting to put lava rock in the pond for ecology reasons. Plants are better.

If your two branches are coming from the same area if your pump is big enough it could handle both with split flow.

I don't use uv, some do some don't.

Where are you at? 2.5 feet is a little shallow for cold or hot areas, the deeper the better for the fish.

 

[addy1]

Keep in mind koi need good filtration and room they grow big and poop a lot. They also love to eat plants if you want to have plants also. Gold fish might be easier for you to take care of until you get used to having fish.

 

[j.w]

JHGARDENPOND

Don't put rocks........I agree w/ addy. Nightmare to keep clean. Nasty stuff gathers and will sicken the fish. There are DIY filters either biological or mechanical and some members here have posted how you can make one that will fit your needs. I don't know about the already built ones that you can buy but post a more detailed description of the ones you are getting from the builders so some here can give you a better input on their worth.

 

[sissy]

welcome and from this forum you should get more informed information that is up to date and we all learn from each others mistakes and try to come up with new ideas to make ponding a great hobby not a nightmare .I have koi and agree they are harder to work with they kill plants and frogs .But then again they do seem more social than my goldies .I can teach my koi tricks and they love to be petted and when you are near the pond they love just looking at you .I love my lava rock filter and I have never had a uv ..Some don't like lava rock some do but thats up to what ever you feel more comfortable with .I have used lava rock in my filters for awhile and have always had luck with it ,but again that is personal preference and not everyones cup of tea .I use what works for me .Some use bio balls some use fencing and some use bogs .Bogs are a more natural way to do filtering and wish I could do it but not sure I could .koi do like deeper water and in VA I did a section of my pond that goes down to 4 feet ,water stays cooler

 

[sissy]

Forgot to add addy is right 6 years ago my koi were tiny now they are around 2 feet long and they sure are not getting smaller lol

 

[JHGARDENPOND]

Thank you everyone for the warm welcome and advice. In my area, the nurseries and pond builders agree that 18 inch is the frost line so they suggest that a depth of 30 inch would be adequate.


Has anyone had experience or know of a review for the proline pressurized filters? I'll need to stop by a shop to look at what goes into these canisters. My search is showing more advertisement than user feedback. Here's a link but it will be one with a built in UV....
http://www.prolinepond.com/products...oducts&category_name=FILTERS&product_id=05040


Thanks again everyone and Happy Easter for those who are celebrating.

 

[sissy]

not sure where you live but know that I live 15 minutes from NC and our frost line is 18 also but the last 2 winters have been the pits ,I even broke down after this winter and bought a pond heater ,never know about next winter .But koi I know need certain depths to feel comfortable and I get my koi from a koi farm in NC and he even told me to go 4 feet to make them more comfortable and also in case of predators they could hide to be safe .Plus with the hot summers we have here they can go down to cooler waters and it will give them a chance at getting better oxygen .I am waiting on my new air pump to arrive any day .At 5.8 psi U'm guessing I will have plenty and if to much I will put it in other pond and get a smaller one for this pond

 

[DrDave]

Welcome to the Forum!

 

[DoDad]

" Does not recommend mechanical filters as it's more old school design"
"recommends rocks in the pond for ecology"
with these statement I would find a new contractor.
I've consulted on a lot of redo ponds just like this and the customers were really happy with the outcome.
if going with koi I'd make the pond no less than 3 feet deep.
if 3 foot deep all around and rectangular pond you would have about 1800 gallons + 3 to 4 koi. 3 feet deep.

 

[vertigo72]

Not much of an expert, but what Ive experienced so far, Id vote against those pressure filters. I have one, admittedly far too small for my pond (but its only one of 3 different filter systems in use), it clogs up constantly. Even after a water replacement with tap water in a completely cleaned pond, it only took a week to clog to the point where my waterflow was almost nill from that pump. There is a convenient backflush lever indeed, but it only spits out clean water and doesnt unclog anything really. Only solution is opening it up and cleaning it manually.

I'm much more happy with my own made multichamber mechanical/biological filter made out of a rain water barrels. You can buy similar working filters anywhere, though they are not cheap, they are big (need a place to hide them), but Id say, they are needed for a Koi pond.

Also, you want a skimmer even if there are no trees nearby. Pollen and dirt will pollute the surface, and sometimes you might get an oily bioscreen floating on your water. If you want to see what clear water looks like with a film of dust and pollen floating on top, come see my pond. Its not pretty!

I got the pond I got because someone else built it 30 years ago, but if you are starting from scratch, do it right, build your pond with bottomdrain, with skimmer and with a big multichamber filter. I think you'll regret anything else.

 

[JHGARDENPOND]

Thank you for your first hand experience on the pressure filters. Can I ask how much was too small.

Not much of an expert, but what Ive experienced so far, Id vote against those pressure filters. I have one, admittedly far too small for my pond (but its only one of 3 different filter systems in use), it clogs up constantly. Even after a water replacement with tap water in a completely cleaned pond, it only took a week to clog to the point where my waterflow was almost nill from that pump. There is a convenient backflush lever indeed, but it only spits out clean water and doesnt unclog anything really. Only solution is opening it up and cleaning it manually.

I'm much more happy with my own made multichamber mechanical/biological filter made out of a rain water barrels. You can buy similar working filters anywhere, though they are not cheap, they are big (need a place to hide them), but Id say, they are needed for a Koi pond.

Also, you want a skimmer even if there are no trees nearby. Pollen and dirt will pollute the surface, and sometimes you might get an oily bioscreen floating on your water. If you want to see what clear water looks like with a film of dust and pollen floating on top, come see my pond. Its not pretty!

I got the pond I got because someone else built it 30 years ago, but if you are starting from scratch, do it right, build your pond with bottomdrain, with skimmer and with a big multichamber filter. I think you'll regret anything else.

 

[vertigo72]

Thank you for your first hand experience on the pressure filters. Can I ask how much was too small.

Actually, its not even too small if the manufacturer is to be believed; its this one:
http://www.cmcaquatics.co.uk/product_info.php/velda-clear-control-75-uvc-p-949

Rated for 30k liter ponds. My pond is closer to 50k, but its only filled ~1/3 currently, its lightly stocked with fish, and I have a reasonable sized iris filter (where the velda pressure filter outflowed), and a second, larger pump feeding my DIY bio filter.

I only bought it because I could have it for next to nothing at a sales, and figured it wouldnt hurt. I could excuse it for not being able to cope, even as secondary filter, with my full pond when it was basically a giant mud pool, but since I changed the water a few weeks ago and cleaned it out my pond is now closer to a swimming pool, like I said, only filled partially, and the filter is still not coping with it.. at all. I disconnected it, as all it does is block flow to my iris filter and because of the frustration trying to open and close it for cleaning, which is a PITA. If you lived nearer by, you could have it for free.