Reconstructing/revamping shelves 17 year old pond + plants? (newbie)

[Duxwig]

The weekend was eventful. After 3 months, finally recombobulated a giant swing set we tore down from someone and rebuilt, and made some big moves on the wall.

Played around with some different configurations but in the end it will end a bit volcano-y with the quick deep slopes still. Put some paver in the soil for a bit more support and working to build the level now. May get dicey with the front slope, but the pavers and rock edging at bottom dividing the river should hold it enough.

Despite the volcano, I’m still feeling successful as the wall wrapping looks nice and I think I’ll be able to blend well once the soil and rocks go in.

 

[brokensword]

The weekend was eventful. After 3 months, finally recombobulated a giant swing set we tore down from someone and rebuilt, and made some big moves on the wall.

Played around with some different configurations but in the end it will end a bit volcano-y with the quick deep slopes still. Put some paver in the soil for a bit more support and working to build the level now. May get dicey with the front slope, but the pavers and rock edging at bottom dividing the river should hold it enough.

Despite the volcano, I’m still feeling successful as the wall wrapping looks nice and I think I’ll be able to blend well once the soil and rocks go in.

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I think it's shaping up great! Good job! Can't wait to see the end result!

 

[Duxwig]

I think it's shaping up great! Good job! Can't wait to see the end result!

Thanks for the encouragement

 

[addy1]

Doing good! Keep going!

 

[Duxwig]

Ended up with a volcano but I’m personally fine with it as a DIY-first-time-ever-15-minutes-every-few-days project. Some finishing touches needed and more dirt in few areas.

Put rocks along the bottom as I built to prevent erosion. Haven’t started to form stream to my needs, but will probably keep some form of rocks there for the end.

Need to find a smaller DIY waterfall box which will fit in the available (non-wall) top shelf area including smaller framing rocks.

Flexible PVC site doesn’t have 1” 25’ as an available option and I only need as much.

Considering some type of top layer, drops to a mid(back right tier), and then a way to tie it back into the pool either from there or cascade it down the right side and entering from there with a small lip or something.

 

[combatwombat]

Are you putting your liner over top of the boulders?

 

[Duxwig]

Are you putting your liner over top of the boulders?

Overall? Top? Stream rocks? Which?

 

[combatwombat]

You have boulders sticking out of the dirt in your berm. There is no liner in place. So, you will need to place a liner on the berm to build your waterfall. That would mean liner over the boulders in your berm, yes?

Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[Duxwig]

You have boulders sticking out of the dirt in your berm. There is no liner in place. So, you will need to place a liner on the berm to build your waterfall. That would mean liner over the boulders in your berm, yes?

Maybe I'm missing something.

The project was simply berm construction. Rocks only in place to hold the initial dirt and just left them as I’m not planning much more until spring.
The rocks are haphazardly thrown in because of future construction. They can be taken out and the berm will hold, but with liklihood rocks will still be there in some fashion leaving for now - later I can remove and fill dirt in spots if needed, the behind will be compact enough then for everything to be fine.

It’s still the old liner. Haven’t pulled up the first pool and stream liner to check depth, leveling, anything. If weather permits I may go out but it’s in the high 30s/40s most of the day now, daylight savings, work, kids, etc - condensed down to maybe one or two weekends with no plans, with tolerance for an hour or so work before having to do family stuff - have to be strategic in planning and efficiency. It’s “done” by my standards of where I wanted to stop working in the dirt for the year - but yes - at some point I have to tackle measuring, buying, seaming, figuring out liner stuff.

Main pond still needs to have shelves finished and the pond cave properly carved and set for winter holdover.
Pond filled with water and muddy clay lack of drainage.

Bridge has to be rebuilt over winter.

There is a list a mile long still.

Waterfall box/etc seemed the logical next planning step to make sure something fits in the space parameters and size it up to see how it looks - if nothing fits well, tinkering with all aspects of berm up for grabs.
I’m pretty sure I’ll be able to DIY some kind of fill box for the start of the “falls.”

 

[brokensword]

The project was simply berm construction. Rocks only in place to hold the initial dirt and just left them as I’m not planning much more until spring.
The rocks are haphazardly thrown in because of future construction. They can be taken out and the berm will hold, but with liklihood rocks will still be there in some fashion leaving for now - later I can remove and fill dirt in spots if needed, the behind will be compact enough then for everything to be fine.

It’s still the old liner. Haven’t pulled up the first pool and stream liner to check depth, leveling, anything. If weather permits I may go out but it’s in the high 30s/40s most of the day now, daylight savings, work, kids, etc - condensed down to maybe one or two weekends with no plans, with tolerance for an hour or so work before having to do family stuff - have to be strategic in planning and efficiency. It’s “done” by my standards of where I wanted to stop working in the dirt for the year - but yes - at some point I have to tackle measuring, buying, seaming, figuring out liner stuff.

Main pond still needs to have shelves finished and the pond cave properly carved and set for winter holdover.
Pond filled with water and muddy clay lack of drainage.

Bridge has to be rebuilt over winter.

There is a list a mile long still.

Waterfall box/etc seemed the logical next planning step to make sure something fits in the space parameters and size it up to see how it looks - if nothing fits well, tinkering with all aspects of berm up for grabs.
I’m pretty sure I’ll be able to DIY some kind of fill box for the start of the “falls.”

a couple of suggestions;

1. you can soften that volcano effect by putting more height to the soil on either side, that is, blend it down with a more gradual slope. You can also plant some taller plantings/trees to the sides of the waterfall mound. And finally, you can add the same kind of rocks you'll be using in your eventual waterfall to the landscape on either side; half bury them so they look like they've been there forever.

2. your liner should be in a 'cup' shape to catch all the water that might splash from your falls to either side. So, I'd carve out that cup shape and instead of using soil shelves to begin your falls base, I'd put in cement slabs and brick. This is only the underpinnings; you'll then put your decorator rock on top and blend in with soil and or plants and rocks. The idea is that you now have a solid, firm, level base to work on. Actually, you can tilt the blocks a bit toward yoiur pond to help direct water, but if you have a liner underneath it all, you can keep it level until you get to your waterfall weir at the top. This is how I made my double waterfall.

Your waterfall liner (if a separate piece) should go into the pond by 12" and the pond liner up under by similar amount or more. This keeps wicking from being an issue. Too, your waterfall drop at the bottom should be at least 6" above the pond surface.

3. I made a waterfall box/weir from a plastic rubbermaid container; I cut along two sides and bent the flap forward for the weir. This way, I could still use the top and I put concealing rocks on that, then some plantings to camoflauge.

And if you're leaving the hill as is for the winter, it wouldn't hurt to put a tarp on it and place those rocks so they hold it down until you're ready to continue; it'll keep the shape better if you don't let rain/snow have its way.

Hope this helps!

 

[Duxwig]

With making/finding the waterfall box does the depth make a difference?

Took a granola box which was 11.5” x 8 x 3 which was a pretty good size but 8-9” for the width probably better for the space, but wondering how deep it has to be.

Deeper box needs to be probably more issues may present.
Any with a DIY it’s largely cutting a hole and attaching some certain fitting correct?

Pulled liner up from river area.

 

[combatwombat]

Are you trying to filter with the waterfall box or just distribute water?

 

[Duxwig]

Are you trying to filter with the waterfall box or just distribute water?

Only distribute

 

[combatwombat]

Only distribute

Cool. Then depth doesn’t matter. Just volume/width of spillway. How many GPH are expecting to run through it?

 

[brokensword]

Cool. Then depth doesn’t matter. Just volume/width of spillway. How many GPH are expecting to run through it?

if he puts a valve on the wFall feed, it doesn't matter, does it? He can dial whatever flow desired. Course, I'd put a wye on the pump and still use the pump's full function. Better too large a pump than too small.

jus' my 2 cents!

 

[Duxwig]

Have a few little other projects(rebuild bridge, making a waterfall box that fits, figuring out rock structure of the mound) but mainly came with a liner question (end).
Has been a busy fall, but this is where I'm leaving off. Measured all the depths and shelves and etc for ordering a future liner. This is the pond naked of all liners for once. Have a bit more carving of some shelves to redefine and pump hole, but otherwise is what it is. Thought final inlet/drop coming into the ground level pond on the right from about the 3oclock or 2oclock angles, the 2oclock angle giving me a wider platform considering space to make the water pool/drop in.

If you have suggestions, I'll still take them, but it's weighted against "just being done" next springs/summer asap - so little changes more apt to be done.
(again rocks on bottom of the mound are just currently support, not meant to be long term - can/will change that to whatever is needed really if you have suggestions on aesthetics.)

With all the measurements believe I need a 20x30 liner, of which I will cut off 5ft of the 20 ft. The main section will overage fit the main pond, and the extra strip will run up the river, to the ground level pound, then back up the mound. The strip will be seamed where pond/river meet, and at an angle w/ the ground level pound on the mound.

My MAIN question being - holy heck - yes pond liner is heavy, but has it always been really expensive to ship or just the current markets?
Went to Just Liners to get a 45 mil EPDM 20x30, and shipping was $187 as the only option. Yikes.
Another site kept giving errors and couldnt check the cost, and another was sold out.

 

[brokensword]

Have a few little other projects(rebuild bridge, making a waterfall box that fits, figuring out rock structure of the mound) but mainly came with a liner question (end).
Has been a busy fall, but this is where I'm leaving off. Measured all the depths and shelves and etc for ordering a future liner. This is the pond naked of all liners for once. Have a bit more carving of some shelves to redefine and pump hole, but otherwise is what it is. Thought final inlet/drop coming into the ground level pond on the right from about the 3oclock or 2oclock angles, the 2oclock angle giving me a wider platform considering space to make the water pool/drop in.

If you have suggestions, I'll still take them, but it's weighted against "just being done" next springs/summer asap - so little changes more apt to be done.
(again rocks on bottom of the mound are just currently support, not meant to be long term - can/will change that to whatever is needed really if you have suggestions on aesthetics.)


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With all the measurements believe I need a 20x30 liner, of which I will cut off 5ft of the 20 ft. The main section will overage fit the main pond, and the extra strip will run up the river, to the ground level pound, then back up the mound. The strip will be seamed where pond/river meet, and at an angle w/ the ground level pound on the mound.

My MAIN question being - holy heck - yes pond liner is heavy, but has it always been really expensive to ship or just the current markets?
Went to Just Liners to get a 45 mil EPDM 20x30, and shipping was $187 as the only option. Yikes.
Another site kept giving errors and couldnt check the cost, and another was sold out.

I can see the possibilities with everything cleaned/cleared up; should look great when done!

Can't remember exact prices but think I paid about $1200 (incl shipping) for 40x30' HDRPE liner coming from the PNW to Michigan back in 2019. EPDM is heavier and since most shipping is based on weight...

 

[teckpham]

Big project. Looks fun

My MAIN question being - holy heck - yes pond liner is heavy, but has it always been really expensive to ship or just the current markets?
Went to Just Liners to get a 45 mil EPDM 20x30, and shipping was $187 as the only option. Yikes.
Another site kept giving errors and couldnt check the cost, and another was sold out.

My 50x20 47mil (No idea why the small increase. They ran out of 45mil) EPDM cost me $95 shipping and I thought that was expensive. It arrived in a big truck with it the only thing inside hahaha.
Yes, it was bloody heavy. 2 people couldn't carry it. Have to use a trolley.

 

[Duxwig]

Well the savings go on then. Been saving my fun bux to order it. Going to be a bit longer.

If I find some plastic paper holder drawer with a flat front opening, can I use that as the waterfall box? Lol
Figure it can be like 4” deep to save room but maybe not.

 

[GBBUDD]

You can build what ever you would like but that design is generally way more work then its rewards.

Plexi glass is very easy to work with and /glue bond. Or make one out of plywood and wrap it in rubber. And staple it and glue/construction adhesive.