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give me a bit of time and I'll draw up something that I think might better show what I mean and how to build it...
Reconstructing/revamping shelves 17 year old pond + plants? (newbie)
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Okay, some decription and drawings for you.
Basic idea is; dig out a 18" depth 'box shape' at the top of your dirt pile. Your actual bog will be 6" below the laid landscape stone wall. You want this in case the water in your bog rises. In this bog box you'll place your weir. You'll put a liner inside this box and let it continue down into the next level, where your 'shallow pond' will be, which is where your waterfall pours into. Back to the bog box; you fill with pea gravel after placing manifold pipes and your inlet tubing from your pump. I'm being brief here as there are details, but you can inquire if you decide this is how you want to go.
The water will go into the manifolds and rise up through the pea gravel. The water pours over the front of your bog box and down rocks into your shallow pond, the same where your waterfall pours. You'll also take a lead off your piping to the bog and supply your weir to get the 'sheet action' waterfall. Use balll valves at the inlet to each for controlling how much water goes where.
The shallow pond overflows and drops into your river. Now, you should have a one piece liner that includes the bog box, down the slope (and under your deco rocks) then into your shallow pond and out, then over hangs and drops into your river. Your river liner is separate and should go UP under this bog/waterfall/shallow pond liner by 12" so as to prevent wicking. The river liner goes up under the above liner by 6" for the same reason.
You put plants IN your bog and anywhere you don't have deco rocks on that slope. The details are up to you. I've included a last pic of an example of what you could do and tweak as your vision requires.
First pic is the front view;
second pic is a cross section;
third pic is showing plant examples;
and last pic is a visual example of what it could look like.
Scale may be off, but I think you get the idea. You'll basically dig your bog and weir into the hill, then carve a low point down lower for your shallow pond, and place rocks to please you.
Anyway, maybe this helps? A bog filter would give you a lot of quality time to enjoy and not that hard to install at all. We got lots of peeps here to help and many witness testamonies to verify it's worth it. You're already going to need the liner under any waterfall/weir you install, so you're just making it larger to include the top of the hill bog.
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This is like a front facing water fall? What if the plan is to do the small falls facing along the mound which snakes back as a U into the river. (Don’t need to redraw pix). My plan has been that, haven’t really considered the front facing and with the size and depth I would need to move the whole mound right to where space is. I’m more inclined to stay w the original snaking plan as I can visual it better for idea.
sissy
sissy
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plastic gets brittle . I use sump pump hose on my koi pond and so far it has lasted since 2009 and only had to buy extra when i rebuilt the pond and got 2 laguna pumps . Learned 2 is better than 1 . I learned that the hard way when my pump went out in the summer and it was hard to find a new pump
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the way I see it, you want maximum prime viewing from that doorwall as that's what you'll see if looking out or even going out and heading toward the pond. This 'plan' means all you need do is carve the hole for your box and shallow pond. No snaking, no worrying re how deep/if water is flowing over the 'snake' part. But this is YOUR pond, not mine; I'm just approaching it as what I'D like to see. I just want you to consider a bog filter incorporated because it will make your life that much easier AND give you a lot more 'garden' because you'll plant stuff in the bog that can be for either texture or color. Many use annuals in their bog, which flower all summer, so there's lots of options. I figured if you 'saw' what it might look like with incorporated bog, you'd see it's not really that much more work or cost. And when I hear peeps say they're going for a waterfall filter...aye yie yie yie yie! IMO, that's the size you'd have for an aquarium, not a pond, esp since you now have nature to help dirty the premises!
If going sideways and snaking; you'll still need the liner under it all, in a concave shape so any splashing still makes its way down to the shallow pool portion, and it still has to be under your shallow pool for the same splashing/leaking idea. ALL your frontage should be underlined with this liner, no matter if you put all rock or some soil for plants to grow. MOST leaks seem to be at the waterfall, so if you line everything, it can leak and you can ignore it. The whole front facia as depicted in the pic SHOULD be underlined with liner, imo.
You will probably have problems containing this snake idea as to get the effect, you can't go too shallow and snaking means you also won't see this stream as easily re curves and camo rocks you're going to use. If you put any plants on either side, you'll lose visibility there, too. IMO, a waterfall is really one of the best features of a pond and in your case, you can create multiple with just your hill, some plumbing, valves, and creative facia placement.
Just some further thoughts; again, tis YOUR pond, I'm just helping with visualization of ONE idea. When I first dug my pond, I had only the one patio-facing waterfall, which I rebuilt and tweaked 7 times until I got it right enough to stop. Then I expanded and it started all over again but this time, I knew I wanted to also have tall falls (the first was step-wise) and since I already had the height, I just threw it out at a different angle, but did as I suggested above--underlined the whole 'hill' I was using so no matter what I ended up with, any water was caught and directed back into the pond. You can see some pics of what I ended up doing in my showcase; look for the 2019 pics of the expansion. The original is in there too, if interested.
I’ll give it a look and consideration
One problem I now see after looking at that spillway is no method to connect the liner or seal it. Seems like most just let it hang over which isn’t what I was hoping for either, or would the liner go under the bottom of it and up the back, a hole where the tubing goes in?
(Talking the spillway I posted)
(Talking the spillway I posted)
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no, just take it up and over or, near the top of your weir with a bulkhead fitting. You can then raise the pea gravel up to cover and voila; it's disappeared. You can put the bulkhead at the bottom of your weir, too; same idea; cover with pea gravel. The spill way should be lower than the back of your weir where you'd attach the bulkhead fitting. If you want to discard the fitting, just go up and over. You're going to cover/camo this whole thing anyhow; not much harder to just lay some flat stone on top of the hose/weir.
And yes, I'd run the liner HIGHER than the weir. If you're going to put this weir IN your bog area, you then would surround it with pea gravel anyhow and your liner would be set back. Again, make your liner and bog box walls 6" higher than your final weir/spillway height to allow for water rising as roots and pea gravel get clogged a bit, which will happen.
Even if you go weir and rock camo only, make sure the liner is both higher and wider than your weir area.
Re the liner face showing; you get creative with rock facia, so you design this whole waterfall area knowing you'll be putting rocks of various sizes/shapes, maybe some soil, a pot for plants or two, etc, AS your facia in mind. Think of this as a stair effect; as you go up, the stairs go back. On each step you'll put rock. The stairs has the liner on it, so you're putting rock and whatever on this step. Gives you stability and a structure to make building easier; rocks won't slip as they're already supported. You put larger first, fill in with smaller, with plantings, soil, moss, etc to make it look natural.
I'm still thinking lack of space for front facing.
Back of wall to where river starts is 44"
"Top" is roughly 46" long
From the inside of the retaining wall block, to a little over where it slants down is 17"
The waterfall/spillways would have to fit in 24-30" of space if it falls directly into the river.
Back of wall to where river starts is 44"
"Top" is roughly 46" long
From the inside of the retaining wall block, to a little over where it slants down is 17"
The waterfall/spillways would have to fit in 24-30" of space if it falls directly into the river.
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trust me, you have a good amount of space to work with. if you're going to have your weir 'pour' directly into the shallow pond below, it'll take up less room and be on the front edge anyhow. You'll still have plants both IN the bog box you'll create at the top of the hill and IN your actual weir, if you want them--just would have to insure they can't get out, but lots of peeps have plants in their weir boxes. And you can have the overflow from the bog trickle down rocks and into your shallow pond too. Compare this 4'x2'-3' box that can be as deep as you want it (even all the way down to grade) to what you're proposing to buy and put IN your weir! Just having something is a lot better than nothing and still better than a waterfall filter kit.
You could even design so your weir is just below the bog which could then FEED your weir and then pour out the blade portion. Remember that 'stairs' structure I mentioned? That's how you'd do it; put your weir on step 2, which is one step below your bog top and one step above your shallow pond.
And yes, it WOULD mean moving all that dirt if you wanted to maximize this bog but you'd need at least 18" depth from the top. Should be easy digging as you just put it there...(and don't think I don't know what I'm about here; moved dirt FROM my dig which was on the sides, to a compost pile 50' away. Two weeks later, I brought it alllllllllll back, to create necessary berms!!)
Are there any small project easy to watch bottom fed big filter tutorials?
I’m way better with visual. On 2/16, I’m feeling inquisitive about the idea but the pipes / intake area are my puzzle now so wanted to see how a submersible pump works w all this.
I’m way better with visual. On 2/16, I’m feeling inquisitive about the idea but the pipes / intake area are my puzzle now so wanted to see how a submersible pump works w all this.
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I believe @poconojoe has a nice step by step pic tutorial; will have to get him on speaker. Alternatively, I'll whip up some drawings showing each piece and spec, later--dinner time now!
I’m on page 29 of the bog thread. I’ve seen pictures so the idea is more clear and I can imagine how I could cover it generally, but I still have issues.
1. Still size. Measured an 18x18x box to visualize on the soil area and it’s tough to see the with the grading of the hill LxW. I’d have to…
2. Our retaining wall is purposely higher on one side. I’d have to rebuild it all the way around. Appearance eh. Where the mound is now would drop into the river and large open area to right where former spillpool was.
Wall/Mound being built/leveled on the right more could give room for a rectangular bog box say 12-15” x 3’.
3. Issue with above rectangle is mound/drainage tube. hydrostatic pressure issues in our area due to soil/Lake Michigan, so mound has drainage tube at a slant to about 12” from soil top. (Bog box depth)
4. We live in northern Wisconsin. It’s negative degrees often and even the lake freezes over. I don’t have much belief the pond would stay circulating or the bog box freezing due to the size.
5. Frozen water + pvc = not good so I’d be inclined to drain the entire pond in November before it snows and refill in March. This would have pvc pipe all the way from the bog to the pump? My worry is water build up over time backing into the pvc and freezing (if the pvc runs all the way and down 2’ for a connection port to pump). I’d have less worry if the pvc ran parallel w the ground, and then the pump connected to it somehow via say 2’ hose from where it is in the water. (Is this possible?)
Edit in 6. In the bog thread there were concerns of freezing water in straight sides bog boxes and expanding water busting them. Considering I’d drain my pond for winter, I’d imagine this would be a non issue correct?
Edit in 7. Does the pvc for the bog box come in from the side near the bottom, or directly up from the bottom (would need a 90deg elbow/head pressure?)
Edit in 8. The pond came w a Latina power jet 2000. I plan to upgrade. Any difference in calculating the head height pressure for finding a pump? People mention adjusting theirs? Does it matter?
If that all checked out, my visual sense w the mound and river is to do the rectangle size have it empty more to the right side so it fall into the existing spillpool. The weir(or is it called spillway?) would be at a 45 degree angle to help create a tier.
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okay, replies first, designs second;
From what I see, you have enough room for a box shape either dug or built from wood and lined both ways. Don't sweat the actual dimensions; work with what you have. I'm sorry to say, you'll have to dig the dirt out and make room for what you're attempting, no matter the direction.
no, your wall is just fine. We're going to take out some dirt and install some conc slabs (for sturdy waterfall support) and the bog box, plus your shallow pool.
can't see how this is a problem; just incorporate it into the bog/stair design. There's plenty of latitude to just build over/around it.
it's okay to have your bog freeze, including the pvc pipe. Now, I suggest rigid pvc in the designs below but what I did was use 4" drain tile piping and it won't crack like pvc might. The flex pvc pipe I show as your lead in should have a T and screw piece so when winter approaches, you can open this and there won't be any siphon effect. If your pond is at least 24" below ground, I believe you'll be okay, but there ARE ways to keep ice from getting too deep and affecting your system. Easy ideas later.
You don't need to worry; the flex pvc can 'flex', and I've not heard any stories yet about peeps having issues with flex pvc, but I HAVE heard re rigid pvc. You'll see I advise to route your flex pvc pipe feed from your pump up the river and then, up your hill and going in over the bog box where it will attach to your manifold. You can easily camo such a design (it's what I did). So, no rigid water filled pvc to worry about. When you open the tee mentioned earlier, you'll allow the water to drain OUT of your flex until it gets to river/pond water level. So, that's safe too, even if not necessary.
see above; releasing the water so it can't siphon means you'll only have water in the flex pvc that is at river/pond level. You're good.
Try to avoid straight 90s as it adds head pressure. What I did was route the flex pvc (it flexes, so you can conform to your situation without ANY fittings except ball valves and unions. USE UNIONS wherever possible; you'll thank me later! I suggest just looping the flex pvc up and over the bog box, shoving it down into your box, attach at the bottom to your manifold, and you're done. A manifold is a pipe with slits cut (details in my design drawings) where the water gets out and then rises up through your gravel/stone. You CAN use bulkhead fittings for both but it's just another leak point, more labor, and not necessary, as long as you're okay with camo later re rocks, etc. Again, it's what I did. I have two leads that are 'exposed' above my bog and I hid them with 'fake' rocks.
Look up the head pressure charts associated with each pump; get something that will be more than enough at the head height you're working with. If you get an underpowered pump, you'll not be a happy camper. With my suggestion of 'two leads' FROM your pump, you'll get better efficiency and that will help, not to mention giving you options. Each of these two leads should have a ball valve so you can control exactly how much water goes where. Put one near your bog to manifold feed, and one from a tee that supplies your weir. The other lead, can just lay in your pond and cause some circulation or you can hook it up to a water feature or even create another waterfall, somewhere. It too should have a ball valve so you can shut it down if you need more for the other lead. I had one 'extra' lead on mine and just let it exit the pond then lay at an angle and pour back into the pond. Eventually, I used this as my log waterfall. Pics in my showcase, if interested.
I don't like the adjustable volume control pumps; I'd rather do it with ball valves and multiple leads. Same effect, no electronics/working parts to go wrong and cheap. More options this way, too.
IMO, having your fall pitch right will give you more issues re 'how the water gets down to your river' than if you go front face forward. Front face forward means you don't need any 'river' route down the hill as you already have the pitch. Stack up rocks and let the water pour, splash, meander between; it's all aimed toward your shallow pool anyway. The designs below incorp those ideas. To do it to the right would involve similar ideas but you have less lineal distance to get that water back to your river. You'd be creating a river with the same liner beneath, same rocks as deco/structural entities, but have to do hairpin turns and visually, you'd not see it from that doorwall. The other pic I posted showed you visually, the type display you can create. I see meandering streams down hills as needing a lot more length and breadth than I think you have.
Basics are; dig a box, fill with stone over piping, let it overflow as a waterfall. Using your weir also gives you a 'sheeting' waterfall within your bog overflow. The shallow pool below catches it all, then it overflows into your river. Easy peasy, just got to move some dirt and build a nice stable base for the box and weir, and your camo/deco waterfall rocks.
okay, pics, finally! First shows the plumbing at the pump, in your pond; (I forgot to add the unions at #3 so you can easily disconnect the lines from the pump, if you have to clean/replace/service the pump.)
second pic is basic front facing bog build, similar to what I already posted;
third pic shows cross section and 3/4 views + more instructions;
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