Rescue tank ..install

Discussion in 'DIY - Do It Yourself' started by PondMutt, Mar 6, 2017.

  1. PondMutt

    PondMutt

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    bottom drain detail.. my own invention
    exterior detail to follow
    3 inch pipe .
    12 foot dia 54 inch deep + bathing pool + .above ground
    12 ft dia 4 ft deep = 3300 gallons [ more or less ]
    imperative survey to level before install
    i + surveyed+ level judged i was 3 in off level ,i was mistaken . on water fill i find i was maybe 6 inches off level ..
    cock skewed ..


    i have the rescue pumping . est 4000 gal. hr .. .. appx 3 k G thorough a 100 gallon stock tank
    + Mixed Media+ pics pending 1000 gph through eductor . more yet to configure and put on line
    catching and moving fish .
    anticipated fish load on rescue , + 300 lbs fish+ = very light load on RAS

    i really feel bad about putting big fish had a 36 foot swim in to a 12 foot tank.. . but the big tank is in terminal failure , . expect the fish rather have 12 foot dia 4 foot deep vs, 12 inch deep 36 foot swim .. leaking tank .. every try to catch these fish it gets harder .. they are more aware than what you might think .. the remaining large fish flee , quite quickly . at the slightest presence.

    the whole garden pond thing really will start subsequent to fish rescue .. remove that 16x32 failing oval and the crap deck , so close in so much space. , all that NEW OPEN SPACE to plant . i hope to put in a 18 foot dia round x 54 inch abt 7000 Gallon water , then move this 3 K rescue out of my tiny back yard ,, 10 K gallon RAS ,, rain harvest and slum to the grow beds ,, ..
    if i could find a proper contractor instead if an install of a 18 foot + bathing pool +
    i would set in a good old west texas corrugated stock tank about 21 foot dia , concrete bottom , mm bottom drains ,, 4 foot deep , buried 3 feet below grade .. , ..
    quite industrial , dig a hole . pour concrete. set the corrugate galvanized ..

    where is the producer for the show ++ POND RESCUE ++ ....

    wow . i apologize . i am flying off the wheel again

    it is all on in on in my thesis for Dr Strange ..

    http://web.utk.edu/~rstrange/

    and specif the online course ,,

    http://web.utk.edu/~rstrange/wfs556/

    my thesis , the possibility of put and take harvest of fish in RAS utilizing inexpensive existing water containment emphasizing rainfall harvest and slum additions to aqua-ponics and grow beds
    ... or something like that ...
     

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    PondMutt, Mar 6, 2017
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  2. PondMutt

    PondMutt

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    by the way .. ,, current water temps are less than 60 F more than 50 F .. what a strange winter it has been , like no winter EXCEPT to spells of 10 F week endurance .. couple quite hard freeze ,, .
    been testing water regular . all good ..

    ...
     
    PondMutt, Mar 6, 2017
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  3. PondMutt

    budgenator

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    El Niño winters tend to be a bit bizarre. North America tends to be uncharacteristically warm, while Europe runs cold.
     
    budgenator, Mar 6, 2017
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  4. PondMutt

    PondMutt

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    detail as
    promised
     

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    PondMutt, Mar 22, 2017
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  5. PondMutt

    PondMutt

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    another bio filter element on line . .. today seems working very nicely .
    found item ,, 6 foot long 10 inch dia PVC sewer pipe . procured a cap for a 10 inch , 70 $ at lowes . the fitting up of the cap to the pipe is problematical . quite a loose fit cap to pipe . . like a 1/4 inch play .. . not like setting smaller pipe caps , .fitting up methodology specified below.
    drilled a hole a measured distance from the bottom and put in one of those inserts to pass pipe 2 inch ] . inserted pipe . , not so easy ,, took grease and a big rubber hammer .
    concept of the filter element is a down flow for +kaldness + type floating media ..
    water feed from pump dumps in the open top ,, down flow , 2 inch out flow down near bottom 2 inch , drilled hole and an insert grommet , screens on the out flow 2 each , one low clearance one regular ..glued up to a a 2 inch sanitary tee,, [ always a problem on these kaldness types to get sufficient flow from the screens .
    i thought about extending the pipe and drilling lots of hole , but i grew weary .
    [ image detail provided ]
    i did enhance flow through screens by cutting and drilling .
    images : see the vertical element . install point is to the right of the stock tank [ near the red door ,
    fixing the bottom cap was problematical

    my action :. put in twice around , trot line string [ tear strip device , in case i need to go in again ] , pressed in the gap some airline tubing , twice around ..
    tried to get the airline tube pressed in 1/2 inch deep. this centered the cap quite well. and kinda of an 'O" ring ,, then applied a tube of locktite silicon aquarium glue. . spec was would not stick to pvc however it did stick , some .. some enough maybe i hope .
    piped up to the feed . tested for leak then started bucketing in the floating media , i wanted to put air in the bottom of this feature however available tube was to short
    however , turbulence from the down flow + seems+ adequate ..
    so far i have about one cubic foot K type in there . an interesting exercise for the mathematical inclined would be to calculate the optimal quantity of K1 ,
    10 inch dia . 6 feet tall , assume 1 foot +head space + how many cubic feet in a 10 inch dia 5 foot element .. . then there is the question of how much K1 to load , some references might indicate 60 % .. ..
    i have 2 cubic K on hand and another cubic of 2 inch bio balls , interesting enough is the K1 finds its way inside the bio balls ....
    prior i did these calculations .. 10 inch dia .. 5 feet calculate gallons , convert cu ft to gal .. wow makes your head swim .. ..
    so far all i have added has good turbulence from the down flow ..
    tomorrow i hope to add more floating media ti this feature and take an illustrative pic ..
    cranked up the +dial a flow+ . on the alpine submersible .[ 3 inch pipe feed] prior my draw down was 4 inches. now i got it cranked to 8 inch draw down..
    i rekoned at 4 inch draw down i was flowing about 4 k gallon [ eductoer and stock tank] now with the new element on line and an 8 inch draw down maybe 6500 K gallon . hr .

    SO A QUESTION :
    assume i load 300 lbs fish in this 3000 gallon rescue tank [ or maybe 500 lbs] ..

    how much SSA[ specific surface area ?] will be required ..
    my K1 yields about 250 sq ft the cubic . and no doubt it gonna work more optima turbulent in the tube vs, static in the bag ..
    i can crank this rescue pump up more . maybe put another bio filter element on line .... got another pump to put on line too ..
    ..
    sure do need help catching fish out of the failing tank ..

    thank you

    \
     

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    PondMutt, Mar 29, 2017
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  6. PondMutt

    PondMutt

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    a useful chart
     

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    PondMutt, Mar 29, 2017
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  7. PondMutt

    budgenator

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    50 L of K1 is rated to process 225 gm of food protein per day,
    300# of fish is 136,200gm of fish,
    feeding at 2% is 2724gm of food at 40% protein is about 1089.6 gm;
    1089.6 / 225gm/50L = 4.84, so order 5 50L boxes of K1, about 8.8 ft^3!

    That's an insane amount of fish! You'll be feed around a Kg a day, that's 2 pounds of food
     
    budgenator, Mar 29, 2017
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  8. PondMutt

    PondMutt

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    sealing methodology on the bottom of the pipe worked good . no leaks
    my calculation on the volume of the pipe was about 22 gallons ..
    into this vessel i loaded one cubic foot of K1 , one cubic foot of sweetwater [k1 equv.] some 2 inch bio balls , then i found some K2 and K3 on sale and got a gallon of each..
    some say ideal on moving bed bio reactors is 40 % , some say 60% maximum .
    60% 22 gallon is 13.3 gallon . one cuft is 7.5 gallon [ is that right ?] so i have loaded
    17 gallon media ..77 % ?? is that right ? quite over loaded ..
    i measured flow rate maximum with the 5G bucket method. yielded 30 G a min + 1800 G an hour [ is that right ?] i kinda wish i had of opened up the screens with a pipe and holes drilled but HEY ..1800 gallon an hour is quite a lot of water .
    30 gallon a min through a 22 gallon vessel packed with Kaldness type . no a lot of dwell time , one wonders what the bioreactor conversion rate is .. \

    it is all very confusing to me . nothing expressed in any standard , some in metric , some not .. .

    i need to put minimum one cubic foot a min of air in the bottom of the new filter feature. bottom of filter feature is under 5'- 5" foot of water , .. i got a new air pump and am i disappointment in it , 20 amp rated at 45L/min . but it will not pump deeper than 3 feet .. i need a cubic foot of air at 5 feet.. .. bummer
    even so im getting a lot of foam ..
    what is this filter element ,, MBBR .. packed column , foam fractionator , co2 stripper ? .. all of the above ?
    due to the infall of water and the air im getting good turbulence in the top 2-3 feet of the element , below that its packed submerged //
    my flow rate is VERY HIGH ,[30 gpm] see this similar element
    http://pentairaes.com/sweetwater-low-space-bioreactor-filter.html
    35 gallon 2.5 cuft media flow rate of 9 GPM rated max of 3 lbs of feed .
    study this sales document for a 5k gallon tank ,, trickle element sizing document
    seems to indicate about 500 sqft media will convert about 2 lbs .. quite a lot my reckoning is much less http://biofilters.com/websize.htm
    kaldness sales documents say .. 2 cuft media[about 500 sgft] is good for 33 lbs of fish.. at a 3 % feed rate that would be about a pound of food ..
    prior my +rule of thumb + was and still is a cu ft kaldness media +might do + half a pound of food..
    i am quite sure these fish have a basal /basic metabolic rate .. even with no food added need ,, quite a lot of sgft media for 300 lbs of fish .. .

    300 lbs of fish in a 3000 gallon tank would be in commercial aquaculture considered quite a light load . Standard standing crop in a 3 K would be 1500 lbs of fish. need bigger bio reactors
    so i think this new filter element should easy handle a pound of feed a day . as it has over a 500 sqft media , submerged , flowing . ..
    the other filter element on tank is a 100 gallon stock tank , mixed media , sqft unknown ..
    at the next work interval[with assistance] i could load up one more filter element. 55 G blue barrel [on hand] loaded with 4 cuft sweetwater ,, ,another 1000 sqft media , ....[media to be procured 41 $ / cuft ]
    split the water flows .. i +think+ im flowing about 7 k gallon/hr now . split between the vertical element , the stock tank and the eductor..
    or then again use this vessel . http://www.plasticwatertanks.com/p/vvtv8/100-24ott-100-gallon-open-top-cylindrical-tank
    load with 8 cuft sweetwater ,,about 2K sqft media
    so what is the consensus .. how many pounds of food will a cuft kaldness tyype handle ..sweetwater is specified 274 sgft/ cubic foot //
    half pound food per cubic foot kaldness type ?
    i like that 53 inch tall vessel . no need to put it up on blocks..

    soon as i ever can i hope to remove the failing tank , install an 18 ft dia 53 inch tank .. [4 foot water at 18 feet umm 7k gallon ,, move the rescue .. ..
    ,, i am moving away from most types of media filtration .. savio strap works good . matla mats work good ..even lava rocks.. heavy stinking fellows
    but the required cleaning .. ..i have some filter tanks with matla mat rounds sure work good but they collect so much slum they weigh so much . likewise the savio strap .. collects so much slum it weighs so much .. nearly more than i can do to pull and clean . i hope if convert to kaldness type cleaning will easier ..i send all the slum down to the garden beds .. they sure grow good with the slum added .
    expectation of cleaning kaldness type bio reactor .. take off line , full agitate, drain , repeat as required .. strap and matala one needs to pull and rinse , and they sure heavy when loaded with slum.. quite too much for an old man ..
    remember this is all in DIY string , quite experimental ..

    i think next time i am at the store im getting a big bag of +cowboy+ charcoal ,, unadulterated pit charcoal , Zero additives , put in one of my laundry bags , put it in the stock tank . [ or maybe just let it float in the tank , in the bag.. ]
    when ever it gets slummed up good beat it up and plow [ hand fork] it in to my garden beds ..

    black earth
    VBR
    mrb
     
    PondMutt, Apr 13, 2017
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  9. PondMutt

    PondMutt

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    have not updated since April.. 6 months ? ..sorry to be so tardy
    this fall the 12 foot round 53 inch bathing pool AKA the rescue tank will have been in place a year.
    i still have not caught all the fish out of the leaker. still some good fish in there to be saved .
    sure do want the old tank and deck gone. sure do want to save more fish.
    quite a number of fish in the rescue , when i transferred fish i recorded the description and length, from a chart i have i +should+ be able to estimate the fish load. ,, quite a number of more than 2 1/2 foot long koi there...
    my failures :
    failed to catch all the fish [so far]
    failed to properly level the tank . thought i was 3 inches out , was six inches out
    failed to properly remove the top soil from the tank foundation , , i think its sinking on the low side,and is quite askew .
    failed to procure an adequate air pump for the vertical kaldness pipe
    failed to properly adjust/monitor water flow to the vertical pipe resulting in overflow and water loss
    during the heat of the summer detected seepage from the liner ,, bummer ,
    on a positive note:
    only one fish sickened and died after transfer.
    water quality is good .clarity is good . using aquarium dip strips to test .adjust PH as required
    GH/ KH .. seems ok,, i add bicarb some times , add potassium salts [ epsom?] and sodium salts
    nitrate/nitrite .. i get confused . no2/no3 one of those [nitrite i think] any reading at all the fish are in danger .. it always read zero ,, the other [nitrate?] is a follow on product from the bio reaction and no Danger level seems to have been established .it is showing readings . the only remedial i can find for that stuff.. is water change .. maybe a big charge of cowboy charcoal filter might help that ,, when it got slummed up it sure would help the beds .
    the vertical pipe with kaldness works really good. too much kaldess and not enough air at the bottom to be a moving bed . call it a packed column . removes a lot of fines and is a bioreactor son of a gun.. very easy to clean .
    when it overflowed the kaldness went on the ground , major pain, i netted the top solved that . water loss from overflow seems to be self limiting due to the submersible pump and the config of the BD/Skimmer . pump never runs dry but starts sucking air. .bubbles will degrade the impeller but i do not think it will burn out.

    i wanted to shoot a pic to share but my cameras seem to be in failure . pic description 12 foot tank as seen , 100 G stock tank filter as seen , 55 G leaf trap as seen ,[ here resides the 8K gallon submersible , i have a dial a flow thing on it , works .. after a fashion] . 10 inch vertical pipe kaldness in place . leaf nets overall in place , clear water , 10 each Koi as long as your arm lurking on surface.. [ think these fish are more than 15 years old .. they will live a very long time, i thought about surrendering them to the humane society but am unsure if they are competent in fish rescue]

    Thank You very much for reading , i will keep posting on this string until the failing tank is gone and time to build new tank and beds arrives ..

    i will be happy to respond to any advice , questions ,, what i really need is help catching fish , help tearing down the old settlement , tearing down the old failing tank , help designing the replacements , help designing the new beds .. help installing the new tanks .. willing to pay workmen
    end state desired is water harvest aqua-ponics ++ perma culture .. .....
    10K circulated in multiple tanks , the old koi , my experiments with the game fish..
    filter slum fed to permaculture beds

    did i tell you guys about the close planted 4x10 bed of asparagus i put in spring ,, 45 sets 6 inches apart , double dug , i send fish slum to it.. did i tell you about the timber bamboo ..did i tell you about my hugleculture beds [ spelled] it is nuttin but brush piles covered with leaves and forest litter
    well .. i will ..

    hope to illicit remarks and interrogation
    vbr
    pondmutt
     
    PondMutt, Oct 24, 2017
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  10. PondMutt

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    Wow lots of info!

    As far as catching the fish as you drain it down, that is when you can catch the fish the easiest.

    Can you lift the one side of the tank and stick some wood under it? Might be too heavy though. I fixed a sinking tank once, by taking wedges of wood, drove them under the low edge until I could drain and fix the level.
     
    addy1, Oct 25, 2017
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  11. PondMutt

    sissy sissy

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    I use a window screening , throw some food in it they swim into to get the food and then all I do is pull the screen out of the pond
     
    sissy, Oct 25, 2017
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    budgenator and addy1 like this.
  12. PondMutt

    ZEROPILOT Faster than you are.

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    Boy. I WISH I could talk my wife into letting my build one or two pool/ponds in our back yard!
    I had to bribe her to just allow me to make my garden pond larger........
     
    ZEROPILOT, Oct 27, 2017
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  13. PondMutt

    sissy sissy

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    I wish I had built pondless ,I am getting older and if I decide to sell the pond is not an asset here .
     
    sissy, Oct 27, 2017
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  14. PondMutt

    PondMutt

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    still no pics yet ..sorry
    it is cold in Tennessee ,, big polar air mass arriving . teens , even single digits , over night and freezing all day , for a couple weeks,
    this can freeze up the aquaculture / rescue tank.
    i reconfigured , will report..

    still worthy fish to be caught from the failing tank . i use a small cast net , skill and ability to throw that net .
    on the last efforts cast missed the bigger koi, caught out a 8 inch shubinkin , a 9 inch bass and a 8 inch blue gill .. all pretty fish.
    im not much good for more than 2-3 throws of the net , not to mention the fish get scary..

    failing tank is at absolute minimum . maybe 17 inche water .pumps still working.

    rescue tank in function , one hopes the reconfig for freezing was correct . lotta fish in that 3k of water

    it is a difficult decision on catching these fish, who will live , who will die

    some of the gold fish in there are feeder gold fish from the store, , grown out , like an 8 inch gold fish , im saving the fan tails , but the plain fish ,,
    choices ,
    eat them
    throw them down the hill
    put them in the river
    to be specif the indian creek estuary to the cumberland river
    i would like to put them in the river .. things already contaminated with god know what all .
    no fantails to the river , they can not swim so good .

    i have the idea of reporting to local humane society .. see if they care about fish.

    i expect i am the local expert on fish rescue tanks

    i really need help with reconfiguration , unable ti find local help my plan is to remove the old timber built settlement tank with a half stick of dynamite . lacking the lifting charge chain up to it with the truck //
    ...
    went out to check the tank.. stirred up a big pretty deer from my little timber bamboo grove
    more to follow
     
    PondMutt, Dec 28, 2017
    #14
  15. PondMutt

    PondMutt

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    its frozen hell on the fish rescue scene ..
    blowout on the rescue point , freezing . rescue tank still in operation but that submersible pumps sure moaning ..

    nice fish yet to be rescued .. 7 nice koi .. dragon gate fish [ did you see the Koi Float in the Rose parade ?]
    2 1/2 foot gold /white +fan tail+ well the flippin pectoral fins are ,, 8 inches
    others .. a NICE koiaku but shumi
    100 shubinkin

    coldest yet ,,

    i have been buying plants zone 8a [10-15]
    zone chart says im zone 7a [0-5]
    to night expect below zero ,,
    zone 6b [ -5-0]
    bust my zone , i fear winter kill
     
    PondMutt, Jan 2, 2018
    #15
  16. PondMutt

    PondMutt

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    fishsickles ..
    easy to catch froze in a block of ice
    i have 100 yards of ice down the hill from the leaker ,,
    i ran city water in ,, untill the leak started gushing . This is not normally a problem i have large leak in the large containment . i have channeled the seepage/leakage to a sump and a pump,,returns leak to main. unfortunately all that sump system is froze solid ,,
     
    PondMutt, Jan 2, 2018
    #16
  17. PondMutt

    JamieB

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    Rather than putting the grown out feeders in the creek, post on Craigslist, a “ help me catch them and you can keep the plain goldfish or other unwanted fish.”
     
    JamieB, Jan 2, 2018
    #17
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