Restocking fees--encouraging a boycott

[D&RW]

We all know we can find pretty good prices on the net. Even with the shipping, which often is "free", it's pretty easy to beat local prices by more than 20% IF you can find the item locally.

That is changing. I've noticed that because of competition the local merchants have had to lower their prices closer to those on the net. In some ways I don't think this is entirely "fair", because the local guy has overhead, more employees, etc. But it's a free market economy. Still, I do try to buy locally even if the price is up to 15% higher. Above that i go for the net.

The problem with net buying has been the cost of return shipping if an item doesn't work out. you take a chance and just have to accept the potential cost of trying to get the better price. Problem is, too often you can't find things locally and seem to have no choice.

But we do have a choice. Restocking fees have severely tipped the balance in favor of buying locally OR picking companies like Foster and Smith that don't impose fees. It's bad enough to pay shipping both ways to check something out or find out it doesn't work for your purpose or isn't what you wanted, but now internet retailers (and some local) have figured out a way to gouge the consumer by imposing 15-30% restocking fees on returns.

Well, we can choose. In my case it started with two internet retailers. In the latest case, I was going to buy another product from the same people. But they still wanted to impose a 25 % fee. So you're out the shipping and 25% of the cost of the item. Frankly, I think that's a really lousy way to treat a customer--I've bought a lot of stuff from these people, but even if I hadn't they sure haven't earned a return buyer.

My point is if enough people begin to avoid companies that impose restocking fees they will get the message. From now on I am going to check into a company's policy very carefully. I will not do business with anyone who imposes restocking fees. AND I will write them and tell them why I'm not doing business with them. Similarly I will write the folks like Foster and Smith that take very good care of their customers.

My recommendation: Do Not Do Business With Any Company That Imposes Restocking Fees and let em know why.
Doing some quick research it seems a lot of pond companies do. 2 examples with whom I'm familiar are: Webb's Water Gardens & AquaArt
Some that don't: Foster and Smith, JustLinersPlus, Pondliner.com and Watergarden.org,

I am going to write a form letter and send it to each of the companies I have done business with in the past 2 years. IF they have a restocking fee, it will read that I am doing no more business with them. If they do not, it will read that they will see increased business from me.

Friends, I've probably spent $8-9,000 in the past 2 years on this hobby and I'm sure I'm not done. I intend to mention that. I know that may not be a lot of money to a company, but if more and more people refuse to do business with them then that will get their attention.

 

[mrsclem]

Wow- I didn't realize Webbs had a restocking fee. I have dealt with them for 4 years and have never had to return anything. I mostly order online but have been to their location and have called if I had any questions about a product. Customer service has been top notch. I ordered pond netting from them last week and it was delivered the next day. Sorry to hear that you have been hit with restocking fees but with the customer service I have gotten I'll stick with Webbs as my #1 site.

 

[koiguy1969]

yeah.. its not a problem if your purchasing a product your familiar with already. but trying a new product is where this comes into play. ive been lucky and havent found anything i wanted or needed that wasnt available locally.. or even a nice drive away for a Sunday afternoon trip. and for the most part ive found many things cheaper locally.

 

[DoDad]

What did you spend $8 or $9000 on?

Current Garden Pond(s) Description : 2 ponds. 4500 and 125 gallon preformed for plants
Experience in Garden Pond Hobby : 22 months

We all know we can find pretty good prices on the net. Even with the shipping, which often is "free", it's pretty easy to beat local prices by more than 20% IF you can find the item locally.

That is changing. I've noticed that because of competition the local merchants have had to lower their prices closer to those on the net. In some ways I don't think this is entirely "fair", because the local guy has overhead, more employees, etc. But it's a free market economy. Still, I do try to buy locally even if the price is up to 15% higher. Above that i go for the net.

The problem with net buying has been the cost of return shipping if an item doesn't work out. you take a chance and just have to accept the potential cost of trying to get the better price. Problem is, too often you can't find things locally and seem to have no choice.

But we do have a choice. Restocking fees have severely tipped the balance in favor of buying locally OR picking companies like Foster and Smith that don't impose fees. It's bad enough to pay shipping both ways to check something out or find out it doesn't work for your purpose or isn't what you wanted, but now internet retailers (and some local) have figured out a way to gouge the consumer by imposing 15-30% restocking fees on returns.

Well, we can choose. In my case it started with two internet retailers. In the latest case, I was going to buy another product from the same people. But they still wanted to impose a 25 % fee. So you're out the shipping and 25% of the cost of the item. Frankly, I think that's a really lousy way to treat a customer--I've bought a lot of stuff from these people, but even if I hadn't they sure haven't earned a return buyer.

My point is if enough people begin to avoid companies that impose restocking fees they will get the message. From now on I am going to check into a company's policy very carefully. I will not do business with anyone who imposes restocking fees. AND I will write them and tell them why I'm not doing business with them. Similarly I will write the folks like Foster and Smith that take very good care of their customers.

My recommendation: Do Not Do Business With Any Company That Imposes Restocking Fees and let em know why.
Doing some quick research it seems a lot of pond companies do. 2 examples with whom I'm familiar are: Webb's Water Gardens & AquaArt
Some that don't: Foster and Smith, JustLinersPlus, Pondliner.com and Watergarden.org,

I am going to write a form letter and send it to each of the companies I have done business with in the past 2 years. IF they have a restocking fee, it will read that I am doing no more business with them. If they do not, it will read that they will see increased business from me.

Friends, I've probably spent $8-9,000 in the past 2 years on this hobby and I'm sure I'm not done. I intend to mention that. I know that may not be a lot of money to a company, but if more and more people refuse to do business with them then that will get their attention.

 

[D&RW]

Some of the best years of my life were spent in a tiny town of 4000 living with my grandmother. She owned an insurance agency and believed in buying locally and dividing up her business. For example, there were two car dealers so one year she'd drive a Ford and the next a Chrysler product. That way she could keep her customers and gain new ones.

I believe life was different then, bigtime. I know it's a cliche but true. Loyalty and integrity were still valued by many people more than profit. There were just as many crooks and meanies, but there were more folks and businesses that valued people and doing what was "right" than focusing exclusively on $$.

Somewhere along the line, maybe in the 80s or early 90s, mammon became god. to a greater or lesser degree, at least in this country, we all lost something. or at least most did. Now the focus is no longer on doing what is right, but doing what is best for "me" and at the expense of everything and anyone else. "do unto others before they do it to you".

People still have the capacity for altruism and sacrifice. But it is much rarer and often requires a crisis to be called to the surface. There are still plenty of fine people and I believe my wife when she says "most people are doing the best they can in life". But overall, the U.S. has become a different place where as a society we are more selfish and self-centered, but even worse we have a screw-em attitude behind it. We justify our meanness and selfishness with hundreds of lies that we don't really even believe ourselves except maybe for a few of the old stand-bys like "well, everyone else is doing it" or "hey, I've worked hard, I deserve it" or the worst of all "well, tough. it's not my problem."

Anyway, I am glad for all of you who have a local shop(s) where you can get your supplies. For my own part I am rethinking my whole approach to consumption and am going to try my darndest to shop locally and with the same stores. And while I will try and negotiate a good deal, I'm upping my percentage difference to 20% before I buy on the internet. And then it will ONLY be with companies who guarantee 100% satisfaction with no restocking fees.

I hope everyone has a merry Christmas with happy healthy families and fish.

 

[D&RW]

Hi DoDad,

$8-9000 may be high. I know on the first pond I spent about $3K. And then with modifications, adding filters, etc. about another $1.5K And I think this expansion is going to total out at about another $3K. As you know, it adds up over time and I've experiemented quite a bit. But just some of what I've bought building the original pond, the smaller pond and doing this expansion:
--original liner and underlayment
--2 EasyPro 4700 mag drive pumps
--1 above ground pump that didn't work out (way too loud)
--1 Easy Pro 6500 mag drive pump that wasn't that much more powerful than the 4700 and used twice the wattage
--Aqua UV 55 watt UV system
--Easy Pro Medium Aquafalls
--Easy Pro Small Skimmer
--Expansion liner and underlayment
--Aqua UV 2000 Ultima II filter
--Various kinds of food, medicines, water treatments
--Overhead shade cloth
--various kinds of pipes, fittings, adapters
--various kinds of media including Matala, Savio ribbon and Aqua UV bio media
--a Wayne utility pump for water changes
--a Pond Vac
--fish & plants
--water changes
--electrical equipment and wiring
--rocks and rocks and rocks
--labor
--bottom drains
--cement
--tools, e.g. 22 cal. nail driver
--wood for the decking
--custom metal work for the support structures for the decking
--flow meters, test kits, nets

i've kept all the receipts on the expansion so will be able to tell pretty close what I have in it in materials, at least.

 

[koikeepr]

I am not a fan of restocking fees either, but it's kinda hard to ignore webb's as a ponder because a) they stock lots of stuff I usually need; :regular_waving_emot they have some of the best prices on the web; c) they typically offer free shipping.

I think here's where it is important to really research what it is you need and be very sure you need it. Read the reviews, ask people lots of questions, make sure it's suitable to the size of your pond, etc.

Even the local fish shop we have here doesn't give you your money back on stuff even if you have the receipt, they simply give you a credit. So, they have my money and I can't spend it elsewhere.

So, just be very certain you need what you're buying.

 

[DoDad]

I would have to drive to Portland toget what I would need.

 

[koikeepr]

Yep. I can't get what I want locally, and I usually have to buy online--particularly when it come to equipment.

 

[DoDad]

I first research the product before I buy it. If you buy top quality items the manufacturer will replace it at no charge if you have a problem. If it's broke during shipping call the shipper,

 

[D&RW]

Yes, Webbs has a lot of good stuff and prices. I have done a lot of business with them. Not anymore.

For my part, I'm hoping I'm on the down slope of spending anyway and of experimenting. May need a replacement pump or something, but for routine supplies I can definitely go local. And for meds and such, I'll know what I want.

I think restocking fees have some origin in companies trying to deal with excessive returns--I think Lowes and Home Depot are deluged with returns and probably revisit their policy now and then. Also, when an item is returned somebody has to open it and put it back in stock. So, I could see 10% maybe. Beyond that is unreasonable. Particularly for an established customer who has done a fair amount of business. One thing I really hate is when companies or officials fall back on the old saw "well, that's our policy."

No, for me as long as there are companies like Foster and Smith and JustLiners in TN and Pondliners in Oklahoma I'm sticking to them. But first I will try to go local. I joined a Koi Club up here a few months back and have yet to make a meeting because of working on the pond so much. But in their latest newsletter I noticed quite a few vendors up in this area plus there's a member of this forum named DoDad who is local. So I have no reason to trade with folks who treat me badly. And restocking fees, particularly beyond 10%, are unacceptable.

 

[koikeepr]

I agree with you 100%. Restocking fees are total crap and no fun. Can't stand them.

And you have every right as a consumer not to patronize any place that has such policies.

 

[DoDad]

How many members in your Club in Eugene?
Last I heard it was 4.

Yes, Webbs has a lot of good stuff and prices. I have done a lot of business with them. Not anymore.

For my part, I'm hoping I'm on the down slope of spending anyway and of experimenting. May need a replacement pump or something, but for routine supplies I can definitely go local. And for meds and such, I'll know what I want.

I think restocking fees have some origin in companies trying to deal with excessive returns--I think Lowes and Home Depot are deluged with returns and probably revisit their policy now and then. Also, when an item is returned somebody has to open it and put it back in stock. So, I could see 10% maybe. Beyond that is unreasonable. Particularly for an established customer who has done a fair amount of business. One thing I really hate is when companies or officials fall back on the old saw "well, that's our policy."

No, for me as long as there are companies like Foster and Smith and JustLiners in TN and Pondliners in Oklahoma I'm sticking to them. But first I will try to go local. I joined a Koi Club up here a few months back and have yet to make a meeting because of working on the pond so much. But in their latest newsletter I noticed quite a few vendors up in this area plus there's a member of this forum named DoDad who is local. So I have no reason to trade with folks who treat me badly. And restocking fees, particularly beyond 10%, are unacceptable.

 

[DoDad]

One more thing before I depart this thread is you can't negotiate with the large online stores like webbs and dr. fosters because of Map Pricing.
On some websites there are number of items that either have "Too low to show" in place of a selling price, or a caption indicating they are displayed at MAP price, and either a button for obtaining your actual transaction price, or a link where you can supply your e-mail address in order for us to send you both the latest actual transaction price, and the means to obtain it direct online.
The reason for this is what is known as "MAP", or Minimum Advertisable Price.
MAP is a voluntarily agreement that all legitimate manufacturer authorized retailers enter into with their authorized USA supplier, usually the manufacturer, and in some cases, the official USA distribution arm designated by the manufacturer. According to such agreements, retailers can usually sell MAP restricted items for any price they choose, but may not display in any print or online advertising, a price below the Minimum Advertisable Price.

I adhere to MAP restrictions because my relationship with my authorized suppliers demands it.
So if there is a product I carry I can sell it at a reduced rate as long as I don't advertise the price.

 

[CliffandJoann]

When a store sell you something they have a return policy, usually with a receipt they give you your money back.

It is different on line purchases...Many times they are just the middle man, they have to except the package back,
open it, often put the product back together, send it back to the manufacturer, and the manafacturer has to re-package it.

Do you think that is free? It's not the same as Wallmart putting it back on the shelf.
The re-stocking charge often encourages the consumer to make sure the product is really
what they want.

Perhaps on-line stores that are BIG, such as Fosters & Grant, make enough gross profit,
on their products, as well as doing a huge volume of sales, that they can asorb the cost to replace the torn blister pack,
put the product back together again, some with missing screws and parts after all the Yahoo's out there --choose to
return things that they don't want because they changed their minds .

I know people with on line businesses, it's costly for them to except returns, for a few of the reasons that I
mentioned in the previous paragraph.

Like you said, "But we do have a choice". If you don't like the re-stocking charge don't shop there.
It's very unfair to post a request on the forum recommending that we do so as well...Personally I appreciate your
input and opinion regarding re-stocking charges, but I rather make my own decisions after reviewing the facts.

I'm sure Webb Water Gardens and Aqua Art are not demanding you buy from them are they?
Why hurt them then -- becaue of their re-stocking charge. They are not just a name, they are real people
trying to make an honest living. You have a choice, and it's your choice, just don't buy from them...
,