Retro bottom drain in existing pond questions

[Matt93eg]

Hello,

I have been searching the internet the last several days and reading, trying to gain knowledge about my particular situation. I have learned the last several days but still am stumped as to what to do.

The scenario is I am living in a house with a nice hand dug pond. I was told it was approx 3,000 gallons. However, it was built without any filtration in mind. This pond has been neglected for probably the last 8 years, nothing done to it(I have lived here 2 years). This past week I started the renovation process. Started getting all the surface plants that had taken it over out, etc. I finally got it all drained and got all the tons and tons of muck out of it.

This is when the filtration issue hit me. I have been an aquarium enthusiast for years and years so I know how important water turnover and filtration is.

This pond has none. My research led me to the topic of bottom drains and that is my current dilemma. This pond has landscaping all around it that would make pulling the liner and putting in a traditional bottom drain a huge project.

I found the Aqua Art retro drain and they have two install methods, one is through a bulkhead in the side of the liner and one over the top of the rocks on the side. The latter is the only method I can see working without there again a ton and ton of work due to landscaping, etc.

I could see a gravity feed issue if using the route over the top of the rocks unless the water is actually pumped up.

Can anyone help me with insight and options? Filters, pumps, etc. I am not going to be living in this house but maybe 5-6 years so that is another reason I don't want to go through extensive work. I would however buy a pump, filter and retro bottom drain if possible to enjoy the pond in that time. But spending thousands is out of the question. It might just be best to suck it up, put a tarp over it and forget about it, it would suck but I realize that is an option. No filtration is just horrible living conditions for a fish that I won't subject them to.

 

[Tula]

Welcome Matt,
I don't have a bottom drain in my pond . If I knew then, what I know now, I would have considered installing one, but will not do so at this point. My filtration consists of a skimmer, pressurized filter with UV light and my shower filter is arriving next week. I scoop out debris with a net.

@Dave 54 has a bottom drain and possibly others too. Again, welcome

 

[Big Lou]

Howdy Matt. Sorry, don't know a think about bottom drains.

 

[Matt93eg]

Welcome Matt,
I don't have a bottom drain in my pond . If I knew then, what I know now, I would have considered installing one, but will not do so at this point. My filtration consists of a skimmer, pressurized filter with UV light and my shower filter is arriving next week. I scoop out debris with a net.

@Dave 54 has a bottom drain and possibly others too. Again, welcome

Hello Tula, Thank you for the response. That might be my best option is to do the same thing and make sure I keep it cleaned out. How often do you have to clean yours out with a net? Do you have a lot of trees over head? So the pressurized filter pulls suction at the skimmer which draws surface debris to it, then filters it, then pumps it back to the pond correct?

 

[Matt93eg]

Howdy Matt. Sorry, don't know a think about bottom drains.

Howdy Big Lou! Well that makes two of us then! I get the drain part but the filter, pump, etc is where I get all confused.

 

[Tula]

Hello Tula, Thank you for the response. That might be my best option is to do the same thing and make sure I keep it cleaned out. How often do you have to clean yours out with a net? Do you have a lot of trees over head? So the pressurized filter pulls suction at the skimmer which draws surface debris to it, then filters it, then pumps it back to the pond correct?

Matt, I have two pumps inside my skimmer. The skimmer also has some filter pads inside it to catch particles / algae . One of the pumps goes to the waterfall and the other goes to the pressurized filter. The filter has four matala pads within it and some bio balls ( plastic weird balls that good bacteria grows on ) and the water also passes a UV light within it. Currently the water then splashes back into the pond. When My shower filter arrives, the water will travel from the filter to the shower filter ( biological filter) and back into the pond. I also run aerators continuously.

I net my pond daily, as I have a cedar tree that drops debris in the pond. Some folks have pond vacuums , but I don't. You can also use a long handled pool net

 

[michey1st]

Hey Matt! Welcome to GPF! There's lots of ways to handle filtration for a pond that do not require bottom drains. You are correct, the skimmer gets surface debris (leaves, pollen, etc) and captures it. Many people put their submersible pump in the skimmer box -- debris gets trapped in the skimmer netting on the way to the pump at the bottom of the skimmer, slightly cleaner water then gets pumped out via tubing to a waterfall, which is another opportunity for filtration (the waterfall box can have filter media, lava rock, or other stuff that encourages beneficial bacteria) which overflows out, down your waterfall and back to the pond.

This won't take all the poop and debris from the bottom of the pond though, which is why you'll still need to net, or at least agitate the water to encourage the "bad stuff" to hopefully make its way to the skimmer. There's lots of variations of this... some people run a pump near the bottom of their pond to capture some of the things that gravitate towards the bottom. There's also external filters (skippys, pressurized, showers, etc). These external filters get fed from a pump and return back to the pond. Then there's also bog filters which relies on plants in pea gravel to clean the water as it passes through. As you can see, there's lots of possibilities!

How much filtration you will need will depend on what type and how many fish you plan on having. Bottom Drains are the mac daddy of pond filtration, and simplify maintenance tremendously, but are a definite investment to do them, and their resulting filtration chambers, correctly. They could even be considered overkill for your standard garden pond (though if someone offered to install one for me for free, I wouldn't say no, lol.

 

[DrCase]

Welcome to the Forum
I think you should start making things better with a pump and a filter
Then move up to a skimmer and a bottom drain

 

[max384]

What type and how many fish do you have, or are planning on putting in the pond? If the fish load isn't too high, a bottom drain may not be necessary.

This being said, having a bottom drain is fantastic. When I built my second (current) pond, I learned a lot from my first, and a bottom drain was a necessity for me. The pond really does stay MUCH cleaner with the bottom drain.

As far as your install issue goes, if you have the pond drained already, go ahead and install the bulkhead. That will be the better option, and the hardest part (cleaning and draining the water) is already done. Sure working around the landscaping will be a pain, but the finished product will be worth it. My $0.02.

 

[Matt93eg]

Thank you all for the welcomes and the insight.

If I did do the retro drain, does it have to be gravity fed or can I have the pump above and have it pump the water up and then back into the pond? I can see for sure how planning out everything on a pond project BEFORE the construction begins is so much better, as with a lot of things going back and doing things the right way later is more frustrating, harder in the long run.

Max, I do not currently have any fish but was wanting some Koi.

I am kind of thinking of just having to go Dr. Cases route for this pond, like I said earlier, this house is not permanent so I don't want to pour tons of money into it and then be moving in 5-6 years, that just make no sense. Dr. Case, do you know of a decent pump and filter option? An external pump would be ideal because of lower operating cost.

 

[DrCase]

Matt if you did add a skimmer and put the pump in it
you could send the water to diy drum type filter and use the drum height for a water fall back into the pond

Laguna has a lot of low watt pumps that work well for me

 

[Matt93eg]

Matt if you did add a skimmer and put the pump in it
you could send the water to diy drum type filter and use the drum height for a water fall back into the pond

Laguna has a lot of low watt pumps that work well for me

Dr. Case, I went out and looked over everything at the pond again and think I am just going to go with a pump and filter for this pond. When the Wife and I move into a permanent house in the coming years I would then like to build a pond and do it the right way with bottom drain, etc.

I will just have to keep my net handy and keep everything cleaned out, maybe invest in one of those surface nets to help keep foreign matter such as leaves, etc out. I was figuring the easiest way and cheapest way to do filtration would be a submersible pump to a filter.

Does pump head start at the pump or above water level? Example: This pond is roughly 4 feet or just a tad deeper. So if the pump is at the bottom so 4ft underwater and say I had the outlet pipe 8ft vertical. Is the head amount 8ft or is just the 4ft that is above the pond water level?

 

[Matt93eg]

How about a filter and pump such as this? It is a canister style like the one I have on my aquarium and comes with a UV light to help with algae.

Filter: http://www.lagunapondsupplies.com/Pressure-Flo-3200-Backwashable-Pond-Filter/M/B000HAU4UY.htm

Pump: http://www.amazon.com/Laguna-Max-Fl...words=Max-Flo+Waterfall+and+Filter+Pumps+2900

 

[Lisak1]

I would then like to build a pond and do it the right way with bottom drain

Just wanted to add that a bottom drain isn't necessarily "the right way" to build a pond. It depends on what kind of pond you intend to build. If you had a dedicated koi pond (built specifically with the goal of raising and showcasing koi - no plants to aid in filtration) then a bottom drain is the "right way". But a garden pond or eco-pond does not require a bottom drain, even if that pond contains koi.

One important consideration is fish load - the number of fish you keep in your pond. We have koi in our eco-pond, but we keep the number low and we feed with a light hand, keeping in mind that all the food we toss in the pond ends up needing to be filtered out one way or the other! Our only "filtration" on our pond is a 600 gallon bog filter filled with plants and gravel, along with a lot of pond plants that depend on the nutrients in the water to grow and the bacteria that grows on every surface in the pond and helps to keep the water clean. So it's a system in which all the inhabitants depend on each other to thrive.

Lots of ponders have retro-fitted their ponds with bog filters, if that's something you would be interested in trying. If you love gardening, you would love a bog as it's a fun way to get lots more plants into your pond system. Good luck with whichever route you take with your pond! We LOVE pictures, by the way!

 

[Mmathis]

@Matt93eg My pond is about the same size as yours, built by Hubby and me. I'm going into my 4th season. I don't have a BD [or a skimmer]. But I wish I did as it would sure help with keeping my water clean. I looked into retro-BD's and got advice here [don't have a link to the thread, but you can search here under MMathis -- I'm sure it was posted within the past year or year and a half]. But I'm daunted by all the extra stuff that goes into a BD, mostly 'cause of space restrictions. I'd considered the "over-the-side" versions [don't recall brands, though]. All articles and sources that I searched seem to think they [any version] were a good alternative to not having a BD at all.

But as stated already, a BD isn't absolutely necessary. Nice, but not necessary. Not having one does mean you have to work harder to keep the crud from accumulating -- like regularly scooping the bottom. And a good skimmer will help with that as it keeps the stuff (leaves, pollen, dead bugs....) from settling to the bottom.

As @DrCase said, you may just want to start out with a submerged pump and a nice DIY filter and go from there.