Retrofit bottom drain - install without cutting liner in a running pond

Discussion in 'DIY - Do It Yourself' started by Usman, Mar 10, 2017.

  1. Usman

    Mitakuye

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    I will take it as it is, but thanks for giving me permission to do so.
     
    Mitakuye, Mar 14, 2017
    #41
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  2. Usman

    PondMutt

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    it is more technically difficult to +pull over the top+ . but it can be done
     

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    PondMutt, Apr 15, 2017
    #42
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  3. Usman

    Mitakuye

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    I like this implementation as well, but this does involve "cutting the liner", except into the wall rather than the floor. This "cutting" is much easier to implement as well when using a pipe boot. @Usman , pipe boots are quite easy to install and very reliable. This would be a much more viable option for you, rather than an entry in the floor.

    Only addendum I would add to @PondMutt 's implementation, I would raise the point of entry to be at least one foot above the ground or halfway between the water line and floor. Then, although unnecessary to PondMutt's installation, connect a standpipe just outside the point entry to break the suction of any potential failure that could lead to the tank being emptied by accident. PondMutt's skimmer serves has his standpipe.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2017
    Mitakuye, Jun 20, 2017
    #43
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  4. Usman

    Ronfire

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    Usman- In the first photo could you not attach the pipe to the pickup by placing it into the side without any elbows? Cut an oval shaped hole and the pipe cut on an angle, less restrictions.
    Gave me some good ideas instead of a hole in the bottom and can remove for the winter.

    Sure like that flow calculator. What is the ideal flow rate for the outflow side of a pump? I see mose use 2" pupe but would 3" be better? Not much more cost.
     
    Ronfire, Aug 26, 2017
    #44
  5. Usman

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Don't quite understand the question. If a pump is, for example, a 3000 gph. This is then the ideal outflow for that pump. Increasing the pipe size from that recommended by the manufacturer will not increase this flow rate. It may reduce the friction loss in the piping but it will also add more weight in water for the pump to push.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Aug 26, 2017
    #45
  6. Usman

    Ronfire

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    As flow rate increases so does friction loss. The less friction loss the better the water can flow.
     
    Ronfire, Aug 26, 2017
    #46
  7. Usman

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Correct. This is the reason that you should use the manufacturers recommended pipe size as this is the most efficient overall. As you increase pipe size PSI is reduced resulting in a proportional reduction in water velocity. This may not be a desirable effect depending on application.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Aug 26, 2017
    #47
  8. Usman

    Fisher Mahisherna

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    Yeah but how fast is the water flowing under the bridge?

    Lol sorry. Couldn't resist.
     
    Fisher Mahisherna, Mar 24, 2018
    #48
  9. Usman

    GBBUDD

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    There is a way where worrying about air build up inside the pipe is irrelevant, and this is what I am leaning toward. I have two bottom drains due to code in this state that split off of a 4" pvc.. it is cut into the bottom of the liner and then as is comes up to the top of the water level of the pond but again outside the liner the 4" pipe could use a t/y with an open 2" on the y. this does not work on syphon BUT it does WORK like a Jacuzzi EQUALIZER. but my set up has to have the water level and the pipe be even. Then have it enter into the settlement chamber. but instead of a pipe I am leaning toward a lower open side that would allow the water to flow freely by gravity down a "return" stream that will end at a pond less waterfall. that will have the stream fall into a rain water collection tank of 1500 gallons there the water will be picked up by the 12,000 gph water pump that will only have to lift the water into the bottom of the bog at the top of the main falls. flow out of the bog fall THIS BOG IS A DYI using a 24" storm drain tile plastic pipe. The rain collection system should delay the water long enough that if there was any spores that the water wanted to turn green sitting in an underwater vault with no light should inhibit it from growing . then theres the 24" bog horizontal centipede again allowing the water to settle any sediment before it's pumped up through 8" of 6 plus round then through a 1 1/2" with 8" and finaly through 3/4 river rock and over the 2' water fall down the 65 foot stream and fall a 1 foot water fall and back into the main pond again. ANYONE ?
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
    GBBUDD, Apr 8, 2018
    #49
  10. Usman

    Mucky_Waters

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    You lost me at "I have two bottom drains due to code in this state". :p
    I've never heard of any states (or any government agencies for that matter) that regulate how many bottom drains your pond must have? :confused:
     
    Mucky_Waters, Apr 8, 2018
    #50
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  11. Usman

    RobAmy

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    @Mucky_Waters

    It is a real thing for sure, they may not enforce it for ponds but it does include water features over 18" deep

    Building codes for pools include any body of water really, including wading pools, spas, therapeutic and decorative ponds and water features, of a depth greater than 18 inches.

    Dual Main Drains
    With the signing into law of the Virginia Graeme Baker Act (VGB), all pools and spas that are constructed must have dual main drains, 36” apart, and a cover that confirms with the reference standard. This law is specifically designed to prevent future entrapment injuries. The pool water is drawn through both main drains simultaneously, which removes the possibility of being held down by strong suction or stuck on the drain cover.

    Commercial pools, or public pools around the country were required to retrofit older pools with dual main drains. This has not been the case for residential pools, only in new construction. For vinyl inground pools, however, the process of converting from single to dual main drains is sometimes a simpler job than for concrete pools, and you may want to consider this safety upgrade the next time you change your inground pool liner.

    [​IMG]

    Main Drain Safety. If you have a single drain pool, at the least, make sure that drain covers are always in place, secured with screws. If your pool plumbing has a separate main drain line with a separate valve, a set-up that allows you to isolate the suction to the main drain only - think of ways to prevent someone accidentally shutting off the skimmers, giving full suction to the main drain only. Ways such as; instruct family members of the danger, remove or tape valve handles, or rotate 3-way valve lids to reposition the handle stops.
     
    RobAmy, Apr 8, 2018
    #51
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  12. Usman

    Mucky_Waters

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    Interesting, I can understand the reasoning behind implementing a code like that on a swimming pool, but doesn't really make sense that they would enforce it for a pond since there are a lot of other swimming pool heath and safety violations that your average backyard pond would not meet.
     
    Mucky_Waters, Apr 8, 2018
    #52
  13. Usman

    GBBUDD

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    My pond is closer to the size of a swimming pool but shallower as it is only 5'-6" or there about . Having two suction drains on a pool that's 10 feet deep no little kid is going to be able to reach so it's there I don't get the need for the rule . The little girl who the law was based on got stuck in a Jacuzzi main drain not in the pool so the shallow areas I can see the need. Thus I put in a second.
     
    GBBUDD, Apr 8, 2018
    #53
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