RIP Tiger Dragon

GreatDanesDad

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Sad news this weekend. I have had 2 large yellow butterfly Koi, one male and one female, that I purchased from a friend last spring. The fish were hand fed when I bought them and full of personality. I have two Great Danes that spend much time in the pond area with me, and have never shown any aggression towards the fish, and actually act very well to keep birds and other predators out of the yard.

Sadly I watched my parents Boxer over the weekend and he is not so un-interested in the fish. As my son was feeding the fish, the boxer snuck up and grabbed my large male by the head. With a single shake of the head, the fish was injured beyond recovery.

His name was Tiger Dragon. I have attached the best pictures I have in his memory. He was officially 25” long and 11.6 lbs.

So now is where I need your guys advice and experience. He was my only mature male. He and my large female “Dragon Lilly” who is about 3 inches longer an at least one and a half times his girth, spawned twice last year and produced some beautiful babies.

I want more babies this summer and need to know if I should try to find a new male or if you think the other fish in my pond will spawn. My other Koi (not last year’s spawn), were fingerlings when I put them in the pond. That was last May. I read that they usually don’t spawn till about two years or more, but these fish grew at an excessive rate due to the heat here and I had them on a timed feeding every 4 hours 24 hours a day. All 8 of the fingerlings are 12 inches or longer and have good body shape.

So my question is, do Koi spawn based on age or size? Do you think it is possible that year old foot long Koi would produce milt, or do you think I need to find another male Koi if I want a successful spawn next spring?

Thank you in advance for your concern.
 

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addy1

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Darn that is a bummer.
I have no advice on the koi just have gf.
 

j.w

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Beautiful fish and a shame to lose him. Don't know about koi either tho.
 

fishin4cars

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Sorry for the loss. Males can spawn in their first year. Females rarely produce and lay eggs in their first year. If you really like the way the two looked and want to breed more of that type then it's probably best to use the possible males you have even if you have to wait an extra year You still have the rest of the winter for them to grow more so 15-16" by spawning time is certainly not out of the question, and at that size they could easily persuade a much larger female into laying eggs. You would also be increasing the chances of more offspring that looked like the original parents than if you use a fish that is from a completely different bloodline.
 

GreatDanesDad

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Thanks Everyone.

Fishn4cars, I hope you are right. I have decided not to introduce another male, and hope that my yearlings will spawn with my Female this spring.
 

fishin4cars

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GreatDanesDad said:
Thanks Everyone.

Fishn4cars, I hope you are right. I have decided not to introduce another male, and hope that my yearlings will spawn with my Female this spring.
One thing to think about, If your serious about breeding back to get similar looking babies. One you need a LOT of room to raise a good # of fry in. Chances are you may get 1 out of 100 that is similar in look to work with. Two, what will you do with all the extras?, Three what about feeding all these babies while you figure out what your going to keep and what your going to cull, rehome, destroy, etc. If they don't spawn this year it will give you more time to read and prepare. Believe me, having a few babies survive in a flock spawn is one thing, Breeding to start a specific line is a whole new set of challenges. I am now up to 8 ponds and three stock tanks and getting ready for next years babies. This year I worked with about 2000 fry from a flock spawn of one female and three males, That was just to get myself better set-up for working on a line for what I want to breed. I ended up with 25 I kept to see what they will look like by spring. I don't plan on keeping any of them, but I wanted to see growth rates, get feeding the babies down, learn how to sort at a small size, Oh, and one more thing, Did I mention to keep in mind what your going to feed and when, Raising say 500 fry to 2" is a fairly large food bill, Raising baby brine shrimp and getting them on small prepared foods are a challenge as well. Add in 25 medium size, and 25 large size koi and the feeding bill climbs and climbs and climbs. You have to set your personal goal of what you can handle and get rid of the rest as soon as you know what you want to keep and what needs to be moved out moved out how ever you see fit. One really hard thing to over come is putting down a good many because they don't need to be passed on, But the rewards are worth it.
This year I made enough to pay all the Koi food bill, and even add two stock tanks, and four large sponge filters for raising the fry indoors a little longer this year. I'm just hoping to have a spawning tank ready by spring so I can control who breeds with who. It all adds up, I have followed Koiguys1969 threads and videos for several years now. I have also followed other hobbyist breeder threads and been to a TRUE koi farm for obtaining as much viable information as my wittle brain could absorb. My Goal? To one day produce a Koi that wins a award at a major US koi show. I'm not talking Grand Champion, just a award for what I produced. Still have a long ways to go, One I've never entered a fish in a Koi show, But I will be entering my first this spring. Second I am trying to keep my goal realistic. Getting Good breeder stock and getting good females has been a Challenge in itself. Getting them to spawn and finding that 1 in a million, well you have to raise a bunch to hopefully get lucky. So far 10 years of fry, and I have yet to produce a fry I would even consider taking to a show.
Keep it enjoyable, you don't have to go through this type of extreme, having a bloodline to work with your one step in the right direction. Enjoy the adventure, no matter what you end up with, One is going to be YOUR special baby!
 

callingcolleen1

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sORRY to hear about the nice looking TigEr DraGon fish, but sometimes accidents happen, rest assured these accidents are usually rare, however I would keep that puppy away from the fish for sure! All my dogs my have been in ponds as puppies, and never seen them take the fish, they used to just rip out my plants!
 

GreatDanesDad

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Fishin4Cars, you are so far beyond anything I would even consider doing. For me this is a hobby. I showed my Great Dane and he is now an international Grand Champion. That was a huge adventure, but an experience I am not interested in repeating with Koi. This is a hobby for me. Something to keep my mind of the other stresses of life. Anyway I prefer the Butterfly Koi and they are not often even accepted into the show ponds.

I only plan on breeding to add new life to my own pond. Last year my two mature fish produced some beautiful babies, but I am not trying to recreate that or trying to create anything particular. It is just a couriosity to see what I can do. I have two 180 gallon ponds that are full of plants and hornwart, but are connected to my main pond. When the fish are ready to spawn, I hand spawn them into large containers then put the mix in the plant ponds. I am not sure I can call them bogs because they are about a food deep of water before the media the plants are rooted in, but maybe it is just a bog.

Anyway most the eggs grab the plants well and the rest flow into the pond and the fish eat them.. What hatches eat off the horn-wart and I grind up my normal fish food into a powder and sprinkle it on top of them twice a day. It was really cheap but then again with this arrangement, I only got 20-30 babies and I didnt cull any of them. A local fish store gives me a 1$ per fish I dont want. I figure I won't be much more sucessful without really investing in other ponds, filter, and knowlege on the subject. Which is good for me. I dont have a big enough pond to need or want hundreds of fry.

So for now, it is a beautiful hobby.
 

fishin4cars

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LOL, It's all just a hobby to me too. I've never shown a Koi. Been too a few shows but never shown yet. Although the plan to move toward showing is being highly considered. as for breeding, I'm not doing this as a business, although since there are so many nice babies I do try and make a little to help support my hobby. All I'm saying is if your trying to get a fish similar to the parents it will take some searching and sorting through the fry to be able to find what your looking for, in the mean time be prepared for what is in store if you do. Good luck in your adventure and by all means, Enjoy the hobby, have fun and don't let it become more than you want it to be.
 

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