Salt in pond.

[mellis18]

I have heard that for a healthy koi pond you should add some salt. Is this true and if so how much and when?

 

[koiguy1969]

no its not true... i do salt. but lots of people dont. that debate is an endless one. lots of people have healthy fish and ponds both ways.

 

[Carolyn22]

Salt baths are used when koi are having health problems. There are those that debate if the pond is salted all the time, then the salt baths won't work when the koi need the salt baths as they would be immune to the salt bath when they needed the health benefits.

I salt my pond in the winter - haven't had any problems getting the koi through the winter since I have started doing this. With the water exchanges in the spring, the salt is flushed from the system for the ponding season.

The other thing about salt - if you keep it in your pond year round, it will affect your plants. Plants don't like salt.

 

[Waterbug]

If you believe popular opinion, or at least the more vocal opinion, salt comes up in many forms as a good thing. If you believe more in studies there's only limited evidence that salt can be useful for specific problems and like Carolyn22 said, salt baths of a specific salt level for a specific duration.

I added like 20 lbs of salt to my pond and pretty quickly considered it pretty dumb. There was no basis for adding salt other than some people on the web saying it was good. I started to ask questions about why it was "good" and researching what they were saying and started to realize they knew some buzz words, but really was just a bunch of mixed up ideas that made little sense.

 

[Dave 54]

Since we started back in 1987 I can count on one hand that weve salted our koi's water.
Both Val and I have used it way back in the past but as waterbug say there has been great debate over the years about it..
But koiguy is of the opposite camp which I duely respect him for, I think its all down to who your mentor was in your earlier formative days in keeping koi, they either did or they didn't.
Personally we wont use it unless for short term baths/dips .but out of the pond enviroment completely....
We look at it this way had god intended koi to live in salt water then quite simply he would have made them marine fish true or not ?
What happens if you put a salt water marine fish in a fresh water enviroment quite simply put is it will die,
Ponds should not be salted .....its as simple as that .
If you want to salt your koi then do it in a mesuring bowl for a set recomended period.
As it is its an all natural treatment which is good and this counts in its favour but it has to be removed ( no mean task as it doesnt evaporate or disapate it just sits there in the water ).
So we are in the against camp.unless its for a salt bath/dip.....


rgrds

Dave

 

[crsublette]

I have heard that for a healthy koi pond you should add some salt. Is this true and if so how much and when?

The difference between the salinity in marine water and freshwater is quite huge. The salinity would have to be extraordinarily high for it to be comparable to a marine water environment. When folk at talking about salting their pond, they are not talking about salinity levels this high. They're talking salinity levels that are at a quite low level in the tenths decimal measurement.

Koi-bito thread, How often should you salt your ponds? One of the better threads I have read talking that explains salts function in a pond.

Cycling, salt, & nitrites questions. This thread gives a good explanation on how to calculate the salt. Here's a good salinity calculator for ya.

Salt can also harm your plants, depending on the plant. Salt tolerance of plants just lists a few plant.

Salt will also create bad reactions with particular pond medications if ya ever have a parasite problem.

Personally, I never salted my little pond, but definitely would do a .15% salinity if I ever have a high nitrite presence and if water for a big water change is unavailable to reduce the nitrite. I would not have any salinity present during Winter. If you want to use the salt as part of a preventive care approach, then I would just do it temporarily for a month or so, at around .4~.5% salinity, during the transition from Winter to Spring. Salt is an irritant to freshwater fish that forces them to increase their slime coat and I am told this can be helpful in preventing particular ailments during the Winter-Spring transition.

Also, only big water changes will have a noticeable impact at reducing the salinity in your water.

 

[Dave 54]

Mellis 18 there are two schools of thought on salt in the koi world and here in the UK we use it to treat koi not for them to live in try to remember they are fresh water fish not marine
What would happen to a marine fish if put in fresh water it dies yesm so why salt a fresh water fish.
I've no doubt that Charles is correct in what he posted but as I said there are two schools of though on this
However it comes from the net which is more often than not wrong in what is said nines out of ten its just a bunch of mixed up ideas, again this is why I prefare to read books over the net.....
However I dont wish to argue the point with this he has his way of doing things we another simple as that
I dont know many people in our club that use it infact I think non of us do out of 50 families ,so its each to their own on this .
Salt is good for shory term dips or for use in your QT tank for a longer period only you have to remember that once in your pond it takes forever to remove it. People tend to add more and more per waterchange not removing it this causes and more salt to be added per waterchange start causing high amounts to build up.
You have to remember once its in your pond its in , it doesnt evaperate off its just there in the pond .
Ask yourself this, if you need to treat your koi with a pond full of salt but because of the salt you cant so what do you do?
Its good with high levels of nitrite in reducing it but hey if you have a nitrite level that high then your doing something majorly wrong in the first place so shouldnt you be questioning yourself how the hell the nitirte hit that high a level I certainly would want to know why......
It means draining the pond to rid yourself of it, causing stress to your koi, if your using Formalin it can turn toxic at PH levels of 8-8.5 something you dont want.
So if you need to salt koi do it in a large mesuring bowl for a short term dip only ot in your QT Tank
Personally thats the way I treat my koi along with many other koi keepers who keep their ponds full of fresh water not salted water.
I'm in total agreement with waterbug on this one when he says :-
"I added like 20 lbs of salt to my pond and pretty quickly considered it pretty dumb. There was no basis for adding salt other than some people on the web saying it was good. I started to ask questions about why it was "good" and researching what they were saying and started to realize they knew some buzz words, but really was just a bunch of mixed up ideas that made little sense" .




rgrds


Dave

 

[crsublette]

The problem with the internet is that it is easier to publish bad advice and silly generalizations to simply inject doubt and argument rather than actually providing helpful insight and good advice for the reader.

The use of Salt in Aquaculture (University of Florida - CES Institue of Food and Agricultural Sciences), stating, "salt is inexpensive, readily available, and, when properly administered, safe for use in freshwater fish." It also talks about the application of salt in both dips and full fish tank applications.

Nitrite spikes do happen. They can easily happen if there was some type of catastrophe or unfriendly weather changes since the nitrite oxidizing bacteria are much more susceptible to failure. Sure, nitrite toxicity concerns is much less likely to happen if the owner knows what they're doing with proper filtration, but nitrite spikes still do happen. When it happens, then the toxicity concerns need to be resolved as soon as possible. The solution and material used to address the toxicity concern comes down to practicality, which is deteremined by moneys or resources available. Once the toxicity concern is removed, then the fix to the cause of the problem is addressed.

Personally, I would never use salt to address nitrite toxicity, if it were to occur. I would rather do a major water change or increase my flow through rate from an appropriately safe source water or, if water exchanges are quite expensive to perform, then choose an appropriate Seachem product to bind the nitrite. However, if the retail product is too expensive for the volume of water, then the application of salt is quite reasonable when properly administered. Of course, once the toxicity concern is removed, then the fix to the cause of the problem is addressed.

 

[Dave 54]

Oh I totaly agree with you there charles I can buy it in 3kg bags in our local supermarket for 45p but its just in its use that we disagree on it says full tank application, are they talking our tropical friends here ?
Salt water dips of sea concentrations of salt do rid our koi of parasites true but thats dip or short term bath as it correctly states personally I'll stick to short term baths or QT tank soaks

rgrds

Dave

 

[crsublette]

As was mentioned, "intention of use" dictates the duration and concentration of the salinity. As the article I have mentioned talks about, high concentration, short duration dips are used as a parasiticide, and low concentrations, long durations are used to help tranisition in water transport (which I would also include seasonal transitions), helps the osmoregularitory system in stressful conditions, increases mucus coat, and counter acts brown bloood disease (which is caused by nitrite toxicity).

Not talking about tropicals. The article is talking in general regarding "intention of use" and also makes reference that each fish specie has a variance of tolerance, such as particular tropical freshwater fish has a very low tolerance.

 

[Dave 54]

I agree to much of this havent heard the term Brown Blood disease in many a year salt does have a place in fish keeping
It definately helps the osmoregularitory system in stressful conditions.
Short term high concentration dips are good at killing parasites.and its a useful link to have. Many thanx Charles.
However for a long term bath I'd use my QT tank

rgrds

Dave

 

[crsublette]

Sounds good, assuming it is practical for folk to transport their koi into a seperate container for a long term bath. I could see how the sheer population of fish would discount that option.

After doing a bit of research., for anyone curious, goldfish and koi are considered to be a stenohaline, which means can tolerate only a narrow range of salinity change; however, the point remains they can tolerate a change of salinity. Salinity tolerance of goldfish by the U.S. Geological Survey. Another article by the USGS, cyprinus carpio, talks about the salinity tolerance of koi carp. Another important point to take note of, ammonia production by fish is increased by the increase in salinity. Also, as a previous hyperlink from my previous posts mentions, a salinity concentration of .5~.6% is recommended for the commonly used Elbagin product.

Depending on where you live and where your source water comes from, the salinity of source water can range from anywhere from .02% (.2ppt) to .18% (1.8ppt) So, some folk might not have to increase the water's salinity to combat nitrite toxicity.

Important to note that nobody is recommending a constant salinity for these fish. If the transition between Winter and Spring is longer than a few weeks for the area, then I would likely stick to just around .2~.3% (2~3ppt) salinity. Again, the salinity in some folk's source water might already be this high so adding salt might not be necessary.

To put this into context, marine fish salinity level is around 3% (30ppt) and, in our context, this concentration is only referenced for extremely short duration dips to act as a parasiticide.

 

[callingcolleen1]

I have never ever added salt to my ponds, but I think our water has enough salt already as our land around here is below sea level and has natural dried salt ponds here and there, and our water runs off the land and into our river. The land here in town was once a huge salty lake that extended to Salt Lake City a long long time ago. I don't think people around Salt Lake city need to add salt to their water either. I think it depends lots on how much salt is already in your tap water. Salt is needed by all creatures to a certain degree. The question is how much salt is already in your water, and can you test for the level of salt already present?

 

[crsublette]

Yep, generally, folk should never ever add salt to ponds and salt is not required to maintain the health of the fish and there is always better solutions available to replace the use of salt, but this does not negate the practical purposes of salt in our context.

 

[Dave 54]

Yep, generally, folk should never ever add salt to ponds and salt is not required to maintain the health of the fish and there is always better solutions available to replace the use of salt, but this does not negate the practical purposes of salt in our context.

No that true charles I'm not debating that what so ever my friend.
However there is one thing you can help me with is this medicated salt you can buy in large blue plastic sacks
I've only every used supermarket cooking salt in fact I have a drum of it in a former food box .
Is it just clever marketing or is there an acctual difference between them or is it just salt?


rgrds

Dave