Sealing cement

Discussion in 'Pond Construction & Equipment' started by butterflycld, May 17, 2010.

  1. butterflycld

    butterflycld

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    We are going to start the process of building our own cement pond. After having an in ground liner pond for several years and getting tired of dealing with the liner, we decided to cement it ourselves. The only problem is that I don't know what sealers to use. Does anybody know of any that are safe to use with fish? We have all the rest down and planned, just need to know what kind of sealers are safe for the fish. I have looked at pool paint and sealers, but I don't know if they are safe. Any help would be great. Thanks.
     
    butterflycld, May 17, 2010
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  2. butterflycld

    koikeepr

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    There are a number of them, but be warned, this is not inexpensive to do.

    Pond Armor and Polyurea are two of the more popular ones, and very pricey. You can do a google search, but here's a lead on info: http://www.pondarmor.com/index.htm

    I've seen people use Drylock and thoroughseal with some success (cheaper), Be warned that you need to let this seal for at least 1 month before adding fish.

    Pond Shield is another...there are lots.

    Be sure to read reviews on these types of products, as I've heard plenty of tales of this stuff peeling off after a few years and folks having to reseal.

    As a push for liner, you can get a great quality 25-year warranty liner of 45 mil strength that you will never have to worry about for years to come. Liners today re not where they were a few years ago. Much improved!
     
    koikeepr, May 17, 2010
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  3. butterflycld

    butterflycld

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    I have a liner now. I don't remember the thickness of it, it was fine the first year. But recently we have been having many problems with it. Now I am not sure of the way to go. I don't want yearly maintenance, but don't want to deal with a liner leaking again. Will have to think about this some more. Thanks for the info.
     
    butterflycld, May 17, 2010
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  4. butterflycld

    koikeepr

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    What can you tell us about your liner and the problem you are having? A good, thick liner won't leak.
     
    koikeepr, May 17, 2010
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  5. butterflycld

    DrDave Innovator Moderator

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    I used Thoroseal, $50 for a 30# bag to seal my waterfall cracks. It worked great. I ran water over it 24 hours after I applied it with no problems to the fish. My neighbor who has been a cement contractor for 35 years recommended it.
     
    DrDave, May 18, 2010
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  6. butterflycld

    DoDad

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    It sounds like you may have a PVC liner. They don't last to long.
    I used Polyurea on mine but it needs sprayed by a pro.
     
    DoDad, May 18, 2010
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  7. butterflycld

    butterflycld

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    That is probably my problem. I don't have a good liner. It was one bought at Home Depot. We have had a lot of flooding this season and one of my walls got pushed down by the surrounding flood water. So I had to put that back the best I could with the pond still filled. I didn't want to drain the pond and completely redo it seeing as how we are planning to do this new pond and then after it is set up transfer the fish. Now it obviously has a leak (or a couple) because I have to top it off every 2-3 days.
     
    butterflycld, May 18, 2010
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  8. butterflycld

    koikeepr

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    If you purchased a proper liner (no less than 45ml), and had it properly installed to prevent the walls from falling in and from water from washing in, you would find liner to be a long lasting and inexpensive solution.
     
    koikeepr, May 18, 2010
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  9. butterflycld

    Sunshine

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    After the pre form pond, we bought that liner at Lowes also. It gets hard as a rock after awhile. And they can crack. Ours did. When we made the pond bigger, we bought the 45 mil good liner from a pond place. We took one of those things that pound the dirt down hard and went along the sides and the bottom before we put the liner in. Plus we built it to be 6 inches above ground level, mainly to keep grandkids from falling in, but it also keeps it from flooding.
     
    Sunshine, May 18, 2010
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  10. butterflycld

    butterflycld

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    Thanks for all the help and advice. I think you all have convinced us to keep it a liner pond and not cement it. I already checked online for liners (we don't have a local pond supply place) and found one I think sounds good. It is the Firestone 45 mil with a 20 year warranty. Does anyone know the reliability of that brand? We are going a lot bigger this time.
     
    butterflycld, May 18, 2010
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  11. butterflycld

    koikeepr

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    yes, it is excellent. You will do well with buying this brand. Ebay has a few other 45 ml liners, too. So, shop around.

    Also, keep in mind that it is easier to line a rectangular pond than rounded, kidney and other free-form shapes.
     
    koikeepr, May 18, 2010
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  12. butterflycld

    WolfStock

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    Dave,

    Let me ask details about this if I may. I've been trying the Home Depot sealer - "Sika", and not too happy with it - it turns milky white after water has run over it for a while. So I've been looking into the thoroseal.

    I'm unclear as to what you might be using actually. Looking at the thoroseal web site list of waterproofing products:

    I don't see the product you mention. There are a couple of waterproofing products that come in 50# bags (T1018, T1019, T4002, T4003, T1180), however these come in only gray or white, not clear. There is a clear product (T1955, T1956), but it only comes in liquid form.

    Is yours one of these, or is it something that doesn't show up on the site?

    Thanks.
     
    WolfStock, Oct 11, 2010
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  13. butterflycld

    WolfStock

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    WolfStock, Oct 11, 2010
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  14. butterflycld

    DrDave Innovator Moderator

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    Mine is grey and closely matches the rocks where the open seams were.
     
    DrDave, Oct 11, 2010
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  15. butterflycld

    WolfStock

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    Hmmm - didn't realize that.

    So - that being the case - has anyone had experience with a good clear sealant for water runs / waterfalls, that they know won't turn milky? From perusing various threads I don't see much. I do see mention of "pond shield" from Pond Armor, though that's really more of a full epoxy liner material and seems like overkill (and expensive) for this kind of thing.
     
    WolfStock, Oct 12, 2010
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  16. butterflycld

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    Flash mate is clear, water proof, seals flashing. Is it fish safe, don't know, but it works great. I have used it for our gutters and flashing. ingredients, hydrocarbon, thermoplastic rubber, hydrocarbon resins.
     
    addy1, Oct 12, 2010
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  17. butterflycld

    WolfStock

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    Hmmm - maybe. The thing with the Sika is - it's actually generally clear on most surfaces, even when exposed to water in rain and such. It only turns milky in the areas that have constant running water.

    Here's a pic showing what I mean - the whole rock is actually covered with the stuff (and exposed to rain), but it's only milky on the parts where water constantly runs. I wonder if the same thing might happen to FlashMate.
     

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    WolfStock, Oct 13, 2010
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  18. butterflycld

    WolfStock

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    After looking around and thinking some more, I'm going to try something different - silicone caulk. At least for the water "run" areas that are underwater, seems like it'd work OK to do a thin layer - in essence just a really thick layer of sealer. I figure if it doesn't work for some reason I can always peel/scrape it off. I'm hoping that'll also help in terms of cracking - i.e. any thermal or movement cracks that happen in the mortar will still be sealed by having the somewhat-flexible layer of caulk on top.

    I'll hand-apply it with my finger. Since the runs are narrow (2-4 inches wide) it shouldn't be too tough. (I've done plenty of caulking before - just never for something like this)

    Before I start - anyone want to talk me down from the ledge? :) I'll at least just start with a couple of smaller areas, and not do the whole thing until I see if it works.

    I was hoping to do it this past weekend but didn't get to it. Will post results afterwards.
     
    WolfStock, Oct 18, 2010
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  19. butterflycld

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    Did you look into the pl roofing sealant? It is black, you could make it look like cracks in the rock.
     
    addy1, Oct 18, 2010
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  20. butterflycld

    lifeworthliving

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    I bought my last one from Foster and Sons. The price of a EPDM was cheaper than Ebay and shipping was 8.99 for a 300 lb liner.
     
    lifeworthliving, Oct 19, 2010
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