Seeking early input

[Lynnski]

I'm heeding the suggestion that folks should ask questions earlier in the project to save potential time, space, money, and anguish. So I'm posting a lot with hope that's it's not too bothersome. I'm an avid gardener, and moving dirt and plants is always great fun for me. I've already done and re-done everything you see many times in this yard, and i don't mind changing anything again.

These photos show the general area where I hope to create a watery wonderland. (The pictures are pretty repetitive but I can't tell in thumbnails which is which). The area in blue would be dug to 2' as a pond. The area in green would be slightly raised using dirt from the pond dig, and we'd create a wetland bog there for filtration. I'd like to retain the raised bog area using soil only (maybe packed into grow bags and staked) but we might use some cement or blocks to conserve a bit of space. Everything would be lined with EPDM. We'd connect the two areas with a stream, and hope to make as long a stream as we can by twisting it, in the limited space we have. Making music with a waterfall is important.

Our interests are primarily in enjoying the sounds and sights of nature. Love frogs, toads, birds, and salamanders. Not particularly interested in fish but hate mosquitoes, and there are a LOT around here. I love to put my feet in water wherever I go, and I'm excited at the thought of doing so in my own back yard.

From the blue to the green is pretty much due north. A small patio is just SE of the blue area, and the house is SE of the patio For most of the day, the bog area is a lot shadier than the pond area. Our soil is rich and dark for at least 6-10" and then deteriorates to more clay than sand. No free rocks, sadly. We're in Massachusetts and get serious winters (at least we did before the world caught on fire). We'll be doing all the work ourselves; I'm on digging and planting, and my husband is on plumbing and electricity. Money is tight, so any cost-saving ideas are appreciated and the build might have to stretch out over a couple years.

All questions, comments, ideas and suggestions are invited. Thank you!

 

[SarahT]

Some random thoughts.
How big will the pond and bog be? Even if you don't think you want fish, in cold Mass, I'd suggest 3 feet deep, just in case, and because some water lilies want more depth than just 2 feet. You are thinking this is a plant pond, it seems, so have several different levels in both bog and pond to accommodate different growing preferences. You might start your "what I want to plant and how I'll see it from house and patio" before you do too much digging so you can dig the bog and pond to those specifications.
When you're picking liner, go with 45mm EPDM. Liner is the most difficult to change, so invest there to start off.
Is the patio in the picture the SE one you mention? If so, is the stream is visible from the patio? If not, you might want to re-orient the stream and pond so it is, since the sound of it is important to you. I don't have a stream currently, but if you've never built one before, be prepared to tinker a lot with pump volume, where rocks are placed, width and height of runs and drops. (It's a FUN tinker, but can take time).
If you don't want to control mosquitoes with fish, check out "Mosquito Dunks" for the pond.
Many GPF members have amazing plants and bogs and ponds, enjoy going through their showcases.

 

[bagsmom]

What a fun project! Planning is half the fun, so take your time with that. I would suggest really making sure you are going as large as you are able to. Larger is easier to maintain and almost everyone wishes they had gone bigger.
You may already be doing this, but I recommend watching lots of YouTube videos by Team Aquascape, Ed the Pond Professor, The Pond Advisor, Atlantis Water Gardens, Ozponds, Greg Wittstock The Pond Guy, and others. Many of them are large scale projects but you can search for smaller ones. After watching a bunch, you start to absorb some of the tricks of the trade with rock placement, stream building, etc.
Welcome - and I can't wait to see your build happen!

 

[Lynnski]

Some random thoughts.
How big will the pond and bog be? Even if you don't think you want fish, in cold Mass, I'd suggest 3 feet deep, just in case, and because some water lilies want more depth than just 2 feet. You are thinking this is a plant pond, it seems, so have several different levels in both bog and pond to accommodate different growing preferences. You might start your "what I want to plant and how I'll see it from house and patio" before you do too much digging so you can dig the bog and pond to those specifications.
When you're picking liner, go with 45mm EPDM. Liner is the most difficult to change, so invest there to start off.
Is the patio in the picture the SE one you mention? If so, is the stream is visible from the patio? If not, you might want to re-orient the stream and pond so it is, since the sound of it is important to you. I don't have a stream currently, but if you've never built one before, be prepared to tinker a lot with pump volume, where rocks are placed, width and height of runs and drops. (It's a FUN tinker, but can take time).
If you don't want to control mosquitoes with fish, check out "Mosquito Dunks" for the pond.
Many GPF members have amazing plants and bogs and ponds, enjoy going through their showcases.

Thanks for all these ideas! The folks at the DIY pond shop near me, who are very experienced, suggest 2' deep for the whole pond with the idea that you can always place plant baskets on top of a milk crate if you want. I have to say, that approach is more appealing than planning what will go where, especially since I already know I like moving plants around a lot. What would be the argument for creating shelves of different heights?

 

[GBBUDD]

After you upload a picture on the top left of the thumb nail hover in that area and you can select thumbnail or full.

 

[SarahT]

Thanks for all these ideas! The folks at the DIY pond shop near me, who are very experienced, suggest 2' deep for the whole pond with the idea that you can always place plant baskets on top of a milk crate if you want. I have to say, that approach is more appealing than planning what will go where, especially since I already know I like moving plants around a lot. What would be the argument for creating shelves of different heights?

The milk crate makes good sense, particularly if you want to move plants around.
You are in cold winter country, so I still suggest go 3 feet, or as close to it as you can without hitting bedrock or losing enthusiasm. At 2 feet, with a 6" deep planting pot, the plant will only be 18" over the pot top and some plants like more than that. It doesn't have to be 3 feet for the whole pond, of course.
Have fun!

 

[combatwombat]

What would be the argument for creating shelves of different heights?

With deeper ponds, you'll get a much more stable excavation with shelves unless you make your pond a bowl-shaped. And if you're rocking the pond, then shelves will give you a more naturalistic look than milk crates and you can plant bare root right in the gravel.

 

[jgrandmont]

Hello and welcome. I'm also in Massachusetts down near the Cape Cod Canal. I built my roughly 700 gallon pond almost two years ago using a Half-Off Ponds kit bought on Amazon. As some others have recommended, the deepest part of the pond (just below the waterfall) is 3 ft deep and that depth seems to be working well for the 10 assorted goldfish I have. All original fish have successfully made it through 2 Massachusetts winters. There are other shelves of various depth that I use for plants. I included 3 fish caves around the perimeter of the deepest section for protection against potential predators. We do have skunks, raccoons, coyotes, etc. around here. Luckily, I think the pond is hidden enough so that I don't have to worry about herons. I do use a heater in winter, but only in the coldest of temperatures when freeze-over is a risk.

 

[Lynnski]

Very helpful comments, so thanks everyone. I've started digging to outline the shape of the pond, and have expanded it to be closer to the patio, as suggested. Roughly 10x10. The bog area will be bigger than it "needs" to be because my spouse has always loved wetlands; in fact, seeing a bog filter is what finally convinced him that building a pond would be worth his effort! We both want a stream, so the bog and pond will be separate.

I'm still trying to understand the height/depth needed for the bog. My brain is struggling to make sense of building it up, then digging it down. I suspect it will require lots more reading and video watching before it sinks in and makes sense.

Just wanting to express my appreciation. Thanks all!

 

[combatwombat]

My brain is struggling to make sense of building it up, then digging it down

Usually it’s the opposite. You dig down and use the dirt that comes out of the hole to then build up.

 

[Lynnski]

Usually it’s the opposite. You dig down and use the dirt that comes out of the hole to then build up.

Digging down for the pond, and piling the dirt up for the bog. That makes sense. But trying to picture the bog as a depression into what I've built and I start to have trouble. Add to that the need for the freeboard on of the of the bog and I'm going in

 

[ramron67]

I had to leave my pond behind when we moved to Massachusetts.
Perhaps one day I will build another.