SEEPAGE HELP-- HOW WOULD YOU SORT IT

whiskey

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HI GUYS AND GALS

GOT A SEEPAGE ON WINDOW IN POND AND WAS THINKING OF PUTTING A 6" STRIP OF BUTYL RUBBER 1" HIGHER THAN ORGINAL SEAL AND SEALING THIS STRIP TO GLASS AND RUBBER LINER
.
DONT WISH TO REMOVE ORGINAL SEAL...AS ONLY A SEEPAGE.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
 
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Hard to say from this end Whiskey, because I didn't see exactly how you sealed it. I saw your diagram, but sometimes diagrams don't show exactly what is going on. The one thing that came to my mind when I asked about how you were sealing the glass was what happens if the liner sifts or stretches after you make the seal and when you are filling it up with water???
I was thinking it would have been good to fill up your pond with water before cutting and making the seal around the glass. I was thinking I would have overlapped the liner over the glass the same way you have it overlapped over the walls, then fill the pond with water. This would allow the liner to stretch and contour to the shape of your pond. Then, after most of the major stretching has already happened, drain the water below the glass and cut and make your seal. That way when you refill your pond there would be less chance for the liner to stretch and pull away from the glass seal.
I don't know if that makes sense, nor does it help you much now, but I just thought I'd throw that out there.
 
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Whiskey, I've been reading your construction thread with great interest but I haven't a clue how the window was install so only have a general comment.

It sounded like you only used some kind of goop as a sealer? I'm not a fan of goop solutions. Kind of like building furniture with duct tape. It works, but not that well and for not that long.

I've never seen a window in a pond with a liner that held water and didn't use mechanical fasteners (bolts). Goop was used as a thin gasket only.
 

whiskey

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THERE WAS PLENTY OF SLACK RUBBER AND I UNDERSTAND YOU THINKING.

THIS SEEPAGE IS COMING FROM A SPACER UNDER GLASS 4 " ON RIGHT CORNER, [ THICKNESS OF SEALER THINEST HERE] DUE TO SPACER .

WILL TRY AN 200MM STRIP OF RUBBER SEAL TOMORROW, 50MM UP GLASS, PLUS RAISING UP OUTSIDE BY THE SAME AMOUNT TO FORM AN ADDITIONAL THICKER SEAL......SEE DIAGRAM

BASIC SEAL HOLDING EXCEPT WHERE SPACER WAS,[ SO THICKEN THIS AREA ] PLUS EXTRA SEAL IN AND OUT.
 

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Sorry, Whiskey, I have no clue what was already done or what your plan is. I don't see or have read anything about any kind of mechanical fasteners. If that's true I would expect you to have more leaking short term and more as time goes on.

Calling something a sealing strip doesn't actually make it a sealing strip. A gasket behind the glass, on the dry side could be a mechanically seal as the water pushes the glass out squeezing the gasket and forming a seal. Goop makes a poor gasket, so long term that would probably fail.

And I don't see how that outside "seal" does anything for you besides maybe reduce the visible leakage.


https://www.gardenpondforum.com/gallery/image/2588-windowseal/


Sealing the outside would just force leaking water to go behind the liner as shown in pink. You might not see any water but still have a leak. Just as the water you're seeing now is probably not all the water that's leaking. You only want one seal, between the liner and glass. Everything else is spinning your wheels.

Here's a picture of a window installed by poster KoiValley on Kophen. In this case he screws a bracket thru the liner and thru the plexiglass. The liner is the gasket. I think he does add goop too, but that wouldn't be the main sealer. A neoprene gasket can also be used. Screws or bolts don't have to go thru the glass, they can go along the glass's edge so long as there's still a clamping action. This is exactly the same method used for skimmers and bottom drains. Only difference is the window is larger.


https://www.gardenpondforum.com/gallery/image/2589-koivalley2/



Trying to goop more liner, or whatever, on the inside means you'd be depending on the goop's bond to glass and liner. That a tough deal imo, that I would expect to fail. It could work, all things are possible. But I don't see how it would. Isn't that the same as what was done the first time?
 
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I think this is unrelated to your build Whiskey. Just FYI, why I'm not a fan of goop even as a gasket.

The following is a bracket, liner, glass, frame system. Same deal is used for skimmers and bottom drains. Virtually every pond builder puts some goop between the liner and glass. And it certainly can plug very tiny gaps. The EPDM also does compress so isn't a bad gasket. This system works very well, has worked on countless ponds and I don't read about many problems.

Bracket2.jpg


What concerns me is what could happen over time. The bracket, liner and glass will all expand and contract at different rates. The bolts put different pressure points on the bracket. There is a potential imo for the bracket to pucker some place.

BracketPucker.jpg


The actual pucker would be much less of course, and the compression of the EPDM is probably enough to fill any gap in virtually all cases. But goop, not being able to expand, does nothing to help. Goops depend on bonding to surfaces.

If instead a neoprene gasket is installed between the liner and glass, being compressed, the gap would allow it to expand and fill the gap.

Neoprene gaskets are super cheap and easy to install, regular neoprene, or PVC, foam weather stripping tape from the hardware store. for about $3. It's cheap insurance in my book.
 

whiskey

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thanks for your views waterbug...you are right in saying the problem lies on the inside seal....the outer is just a pressure release, if you catch my drift.

will check inner seal today and report back tonight my findings. [ somewhere on seal ......the seal aint sealing...thus water however tiny is getting through ]

thanks again
whiskey
 

whiskey

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If you get water out side the window, this is due to water weight or pressure causing seepage or leak, on the other hand a internal leak l feel is down to cut or torn liner.

Any way waterbug found inner leak on liner...see whiskey new pond project.
 

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