Sick goldfish -- what am I missing?

[Mmathis]

Yes, but I have in inside in a 5 gal. bucket with an air stone. I've been changing the water out (switching him to a different bucket) about every 12 hours. Not sure of the salt concentration, but it's about or just under 1 TBSP per the bucket-full.

 

[mrsclem]

TM- sorry you are losing fish. I know how frustrated you must be after dealing with my electrical problems. You say he seems like hes ? pretty sure you don't as you are on top of things but sometimes things get overlooked. Have you had fish loses like this before or did this start this year? What's changed? Lost my 30+" white longfin koi after the issue with ph & possible low O2 levels so know hat you are going thru. Hopefully with everybodies help you will figure this out.

 

[bettasngoldfish]

Yes, but I have in inside in a 5 gal. bucket with an air stone. I've been changing the water out (switching him to a different bucket) about every 12 hours. Not sure of the salt concentration, but it's about or just under 1 TBSP per the bucket-full.

That sounds good to me and if he seems to be improving that is great! And remember a fish who is still interested in eating is a good thing

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I am following this with interest. Please keep us up-to-date on this.

 

[Mmathis]

I am following this with interest. Please keep us up-to-date on this.

WHAT! I thought you were going to advise ME!

 

[Lisak1]

Sorry, but the words "nice, fresh turtle turd" killed me dead.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

WHAT! I thought you were going to advise ME!

I may do a better job of confusing you than advising you.
All the previous comments on this problem are reasonable, but I keep coming back to source of the problem being water quality. I am not referring to water quality based on the usual parameters, but on the broader definition that includes DOM (Dissolved Organic Matter), BOD (Biological Oxygen Demand) among others and the fact that parameter levels will vary dependent on location in the water body. Oxygen content, for example, will be higher at the base of a waterfall than at the very bottom of any pond.
It is because of these variances in water parameter levels due to immediate environmental factors that my thoughts keep returning to your 'bog'.
Best case scenario is that the pathogens contained in the turtle feces (there are pathogens in all vertebrate feces) are being carried to the pond proper by the planned water flow. Worst case scenario is that you do not have a completely diffused water flow in your 'bog'. Contrary to what others may say, 'bogs' will clog and form 'dead spots' where water will not penetrate but will flow (Channel) around the obstructed area. This results in anaerobic conditions within these 'dead spots' which can become a proverbial nursery for pathogenic bacteria.
Does your 'bog' exhibit an even water flow across its entire surface or are there areas where water flow is considerably more noticeable.
The point that I am trying to make is that water quality in the main pond basin may test acceptable but only a few feet or even inches away a veritable time bomb may be ticking in your 'bog'.

 

[MitchM]

I am wondering if the hot weather that TM has had lately turned the "bog" into a cauldron that continually pumped a steady stream of pathogens into the pond.
Would the use of a UV sterilizer be appropriate in a case like that?

 

[Mmathis]

Believe me that I have thought every which way about the turtle bog, but I really don't see how it's the problem -- not ruling it out, but......

I have done random temp checks all summer on the bog-water when I check the pond, and the temps never vary by more than a degree or 2. The bog is shaded very well by the plants. Also, I pulled some plants to see what the gravel underneath was like, and it was the sweetest, earthiest smell....like fresh soil -- very pleasant. No evidence of hydrogen sulfide-type, or any type of bad odor. So I think we can rule out anything anaerobic. Plus, the turtles probably poop less in the bog over the course of a 24 hr. period than water turtles would during the same time, so can't see where the incidence of pathogens would be any worse.

I watched the water flow from the bog, and it is even throughout -- pics included.

So, while the bog still isn't ruled out, what else can we look at.....?

 

[Mmathis]

And on an up-note, the fish that I thought was near-death a few days ago seems to be doing much better. But still has that "mega cornea" thing going on. After 2 or 3 days indoors, in a salt bath and showing signs of wanting to eat.....I moved him outdoors to the QT. He's acting about 95% "normal," still has a little bit of a wobble, but other wise his behavior seems fine. Again, though, still has that "mega cornea" but never did go on to develop "dropsy" like the last fish did. His scales look, how can I describe it, rubbed-on along his sides, but I think that's a result of my not-so-perfect scraping technique.

 

[fishin4cars]

Maggie while what Meyer is saying has a lot of truth and should always be considered when filtering with a bog, I don't feel like the bog has been set up long enough for there to be significant areas of concern in your situation IF you seeing pretty even flow. My bog is four years old, It's been 100% undisturbed for over two years now and I firmly believe it's in bad shape, my stocking level is far more than your pond. and every fish in the pond with the exceptions of the ones that have been born in it have been in there for over three years and I have not had a death in this pond in four years. Addy runs a similar system, It's a fair debate and one I don't take light hearted. I too was not a fan of bog filtering for a long time and wouldn't do it for my show fish. But the pond with the bog has been the most stable pond I personally have ever kept.

 

[Dave 54]

Maggie while what Meyer is saying has a lot of truth and should always be considered when filtering with a bog, I don't feel like the bog has been set up long enough for there to be significant areas of concern in your situation IF you seeing pretty even flow. My bog is four years old, It's been 100% undisturbed for over two years now and I firmly believe it's in bad shape, my stocking level is far more than your pond. and every fish in the pond with the exceptions of the ones that have been born in it have been in there for over three years and I have not had a death in this pond in four years. Addy runs a similar system, It's a fair debate and one I don't take light hearted. I too was not a fan of bog filtering for a long time and wouldn't do it for my show fish. But the pond with the bog has been the most stable pond I personally have ever kept.

I agree with MitchM Maggie going back through your threads about it the only thing you changed about anything was to add kitty litter to it yes?
I'm honestly starting to wonder if its the kitty litter in the bog that has started to cause of all your ponds problems either that or your design was off slightly as the bog is also new this year ?

Dave

 

[Mmathis]

@Dave 54 The kitty litter "experiment" was very recent [and wasn't that significant in amt -- probably no more than would have been spilled if a lily pot overturned], and just a week or so before my first application of "koi clay." No, the problems have been going on since the spring -- or even sooner if you count the couple of fish that disappeared before I realized they were actually gone. You know, how you would suddenly realize that, "Oh, I haven't seen this or that fish in a while....."

The bog was completed and I started flowing water through it......in October of last year......I think. There were plants then, but no significant growth as they were dormant. And, there has been a "bog" of some sort for the turtles since the beginning, as the "beach" area I had incorporated into the pond design originally was also a bog.

 

[Dave 54]

I'm wondering if we are in danger of reading too much into the eyes Maggie because to tell you the thruth I cant really fault the goldfish at all otherwise

Dave

 

[Mmathis]

I'm wondering if we are in danger of reading too much into the eyes Maggie because to tell you the thruth I cant really fault the goldfish at all otherwise

Dave

Remember that were other symptoms with this fish, as well as the similarities with the one that died a month ago. This guy is now outside in the QT, and seems to be doing well, but he's still a little wobbly -- not quite as steady as he should be, and still listing a tad.