Sick Koi - Fungus?

[Andy41]

Hi Guys,

I was trying out my GoPro today, by filimg the fish in the pond.

I got some good film, but i also cayght this Koi, with what looks like a fungus growing on him.

I've not seen this before.. can anyone confirm....

[sharedmedia=gallery:images:3752]

cheers,

Andy

 

[Andy41]

Here's a better pic from a second video i took...

[sharedmedia=gallery:images:3753]

Really hope this is treatable.

cheers,

Andy

 

[bettasngoldfish]

Columnaris possibly?

 

[Dave 54]

Oh Dear Andy youve picked a good one mate what do we have a fungal infection or Columnaris
Both are very simmilar are brought about by a number of factors from water quality parasite attack or water temperature fluctuations poor diet etc, fungal wise or as the lack of the dorsal fin points to Columnaris
If its columnaris you need to take a swab of your fish to send it off to identify which bacterium your up against then treat your fish accordingly as per instructions your dealer or your veteranarian will be more than happy to help you in this even idenifying the bacteria for you suggesting which would be the best antibiotic for this problem
If fungal then your point of entry most probably will be a parasite comlicated by the other things I've already mentioned so then your going to have to track down how and why .
For heacily infected fish remove sedate and treat using a cotton bud at a time to remove any fungus then paint the area with Malachite green then spray with propolis to finish off your going to have to sedate your fish to do this , if you cant get your hands on propper fish anethetic such as MS222 then Oil of cloves at a rate of 10ml per 2 imperial gallons will suffice , the trick is to wait till your fish is totally under before you treat once this is done hold the fish in the pond near an airiated flow until you feel the muscles kick back in and release we take heavily infected fish out owing to the number of fungal spores that they can release which we dont want.
once this is done and wounds are treated we can then go about treating the pond for this your going to need a top of the range anti fungal treatment repeating if necessary
Aproximately how many are infected and are they just yoour koi not the goldfish ?
What is your water quality like ammonia, nitite, nitrate, ph ,kh and gh.
Is your pond over crowded are you getting temperature fluctuations when was your last water change what was the last parasite you treated for Questions Questions but all need answering if your going to win this battle.
This is why I'm so hot on prewinter maintenance of pond and filters and why I carry on throughout with routine water changes winter otherwise is a time of mistakes and we shouldnt be making them, this may very well be an expensive leason for you should you suffer losses .
Best of luck in your treatment of
PS if you still lived in Crownhill Andy I could have popped up to help you mate


Dave

 

[Dave 54]

Looking at the second photo however it looks as if the dorsal is intact still with a black edge (very confusing the other photo made this)
However any ulceration on the body may still well point to columnaris but I've just let my breath out some, so this may well bode well for your fish in that its more than probably fungal in origin .
But you still need to address all the issues raised about water quality etc after treaing your fish.

Dave

 

[Andy41]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the quick reply... i'll try and answer some of the questions :

1. I've only noticed it on this fish. I looked at the others quite closely and don't see any other problems.
2. Our weather has been warm, but there's been no *sudden* changes.
3. I'm not feeding them at the moment. They haven't had any food for at least 4 weeks, and i'm sure this fish wasn't infected like this before.
4. Water Quality : I'm using Test strips. According to that NO3 and NO2 are 0. GH is between 7 and 14, KH is 10, PH is 6.8. Nothing seems really out of whack.
5. Pond is 21000l with 6 Koi and about 50 Goldfish (Gave some away in the summer).
6. Never treated them for anything before.

I'm going to contact the dealer i bought them from tomorrow and ask as well. He told me he travels out to customers so maybe he can help further. I'm not comfortable try to knock out the fish and operate on it.

If it's fungal then all fish are at risk, right? How contagious is it?

cheers,

Andy.

 

[Andy41]

Reading the Columnaris description here i don't think it's this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columnaris

"An infection will usually first manifest in fish by causing frayed and ragged fins. This is followed by the appearance of ulcerations on the skin, and subsequent epidermal loss, identifiable as white or cloudy, fungus-like patches – particularly on the gill filaments."

I don't see Ulcers, or ragged fins, and the gills appear ok.

 

[tenchi]

I would remove that fish and quarantine it in a separate tank immediately. Good luck. Looks like parasitic infection.
Tenchi

 

[bettasngoldfish]

They don't have to have all symptoms listed. Many times columnaris is mistaken for a fungal infection and people don't realize it until they start treatment and it doesn't work.

Here is another description that may help you decide what is going on with your fish. http://www.lagunakoi.com/Koi-Diseases-Koi-Information-sc-44.html (cotton wool disease aka columnaris)

At the very least I would remove the fish to a quarantine tank and do a partial water change in the pond.

 

[Dave 54]

They don't have to have all symptoms listed. Many times columnaris is mistaken for a fungal infection and people don't realize it until they start treatment and it doesn't work.

Here is another description that may help you decide what is going on with your fish. http://www.lagunakoi.com/Koi-Diseases-Koi-Information-sc-44.html (cotton wool disease aka columnaris)

At the very least I would remove the fish to a quarantine tank and do a partial water change in the pond.

I agree with you hence it being mentioned first then following on with Fungal infection I'l hassard a guess at it being fungal ut I'm going out on a limb in saying it .
Best Andy waits for his koi dealer to visit then at least he ca do a scrape and act accordingly
Andy if the fungal spores are spread and any other fish have damaged mucus layers then it spreads
By the way non of your links are working Maria


Dave

 

[Dave 54]

Andy when you can ditch the test strips they are notoriously unreliable its better sticking to the Drop kits either JBL Tetra or API .
Personally I prefare Tetra but have used both before now as they are both as good as each other .
However there is a new kid on the block in the form of JBL a German company they too do drop kits but from what I hear they are quite expensive to buy but you get what amounts to be a Labratory in the form of a plastic carry case with other tests not used in the UK such as phosphate levels, Iron etc etc .
See link:-


http://www.jbl.de/en/aquatics-freshwater-products/detail/2446/jbl-testlab


Personally I'll wait till the cost of these kits fall and I can figure out all the other kits , a friend in the trade recons however that these kits are the bee's knees, we'll see........
Heres a link into the API test kits :-

http://www.apifishcare.com/product.php?sectionid=2&catid=22&subcatid=0&id=670


Last but not least the Tetra kit:-

http://www.tetra.net/en/en/coldwater-fish/care/water-tests/tetra-watertest-set

Hope this all helps mate ?

Dave

 

[Andy41]

Cheers Dave.

The Koi place i bought the fish from had an open day last year, and they invited a Rep from one of the fish food companies to talk, and to make free water sample measurements. He had a kit just like this. I forget which company he was from though.

One thing that i was thinking about yesterday... with the warmer temps, should i be running the filter again, or should i leave it off?

The Koi place guy emailed me back yesterday.. he's going to ring me today.... hopefully we'll find a solution to this.

cheers,

Andy.

 

[Andy41]

Dave... just spoke with the fish guy... he's coming on Wednesday afternoon and bringing a 500l container with him to quarentine the fish.

I just hope the fish survives until then.

 

[Dave 54]

Andy may I ask what filter system you have on your pond pease , I for the life of me cannot understand why everyone switches their systems off ?
Filters are an integral part of the pond switching them off seems alien to me .
I mean Austria its further east than us and thus colder than the UK but not by that much ...........
Here in the koi world we just carry on as normal the pond is protected from ice insulated against the cold/freezing conditions the only thing we stop doing is to feed the koiuntil the water warms sufficiently enough to feed our koi
Its good that you have such a good dealer that will come out and help hopefully wih the QT weve caught this fish before
A) anymore damage is done with spores attaching themselves to other hosts in your pond.
B) weve acted swiftly emough to save this fishes life
C) a lesson has been learned from all og this .

Dave

 

[Andy41]

Hi Dave,

I built the filter myself from ideas i found on here.

The first stage is a vortex in a barrel with brushes over the top of that. That traps *a lot* of rubbish. That then splits. about 40% of the water then goes through a bog (area between pond and green filter enclosure in pic below), and the rest flows through a biofilter (*lots* of filter foam in a 500l barrel) and back into the pond.

The problem here is freezing. We get down to -10C most nights during winter, and sometimes -20C. Those can also be daytime temps. The pond freezes solid. Last year i could walk on it, the ice was that thick. In those temps the water in the filter barrels would freeze and split the barrels.

Therefore as soon as we get below 0C for more than a few nights i drain the whole system.

This year however it's been *very* mild, which is why i'm wondering if i should activate the filter again. It would only take one bad night though and the whole thing would be ruined.

The guy is coming tomorrow and is going to lend me a 500l tub for quarentining the fish. Hopefully we'll be able to catch the fish!

cheers,

Andy.