Sick Koi

Discussion in 'Illness and Disease' started by Ulli, Jun 17, 2017.

  1. Ulli

    Ulli

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    Hi, I'm new to this forum and have a question about the health of my 3 Koi. They are in a 700 Gallon outdoor pond with a bio filter system, one large waterfall, a stream and another smaller waterfall. The 3 koi in question have been in the pond for at least 3 years. They are between 12" and 15" long. I never had problems with their health, but I think they might have a parasite. We had ducks in our pond this Spring and I don't know if they maybe carried the parasites into the pond. We also just got 3 new 4" koi from a reputable source. I contacted him already and he had no complaints about any of the koi he sold that were in the same batch. It seems as well that the 3 new ones are not affected.
    The water test came out normal, but we did 3 or 4 water changes already and added some Kock-Out. One of the Koi started about 2-1/2 weeks ago being lethargic, not feeding and flashing. Then all 3 did the same a few days later. With all the water changes and the Knock-out they are improving. They are more active, feeding a little bit and not as scared anymore as they were 2 weeks ago. They were actually so tame before all this happened, that I could feed them by hand. We were away for 4 days and just got back today. I was shocked to see that the one that was actually affected the least before, looks terrible. See photos. I really don't know what it could be. I thought it was Ich, but now I'm not sure. I didn't do a scrape because I didn't want to stress them any more. I also don't know how to do it and haven't found a place that would test the scrape here in Edmonton. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I really don't want to loose my pets.
     

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    Ulli, Jun 17, 2017
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  2. Ulli

    Tula

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    My first thought is some type of fungus when I look at the body of the koi. The fin looks like it might be a parasite....anchor worm?

    I think you should sedate the fish and scrape and scope...do you have a microscope? If you don't have a microscope or know someone with access to one, you'll probably have to do a broad spectrum treatment.

    I'll be following with interest.
     
    Tula, Jun 17, 2017
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  3. Ulli

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Treat for Ich and do it soon.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Jun 17, 2017
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  4. Ulli

    Tula

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    I wasn't sure , so I'm glad you do !
     
    Tula, Jun 17, 2017
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  5. Ulli

    Ulli

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    Thanks Tula. A fungal infection was my thought as well. Maybe they had ich before and it turned into a fungal infection now? We are treating with a broad spectrum already though. Hopefully it will still save them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017
    Ulli, Jun 17, 2017
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  6. Ulli

    Ulli

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    We have been treating for ich as soon as we noticed a problem. We treated with a product called Knock-Out Plus. Does anyone have any experience with it?
     
    Ulli, Jun 17, 2017
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  7. Ulli

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Never heard of it. Who is the manufacturer?

    The fish in the first photo has either Ich or Columnaris. I lean towards Ich because there are no large patches as is common with Columnaris. Formilin should be administered as a whole pond treatment. Be sure to turn off the UV if you have one.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017
    Meyer Jordan, Jun 17, 2017
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  8. Ulli

    Ulli

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    Ulli, Jun 17, 2017
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  9. Ulli

    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    I don't know anything about fish illness, but want to welcome you! Sorry your fish are sick!
     
    Mmathis, Jun 17, 2017
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  10. Ulli

    Ulli

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    Thank you!
     
    Ulli, Jun 17, 2017
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  11. Ulli

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Thanks. I have already looked it up and read about it. Broad spectrum treatments rarely do much when a parasite or pathogen is established. Formilin or Malachite Green are proven treatments that will eradicate this parasite (Ich) before it infects the rest of your fish.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Jun 17, 2017
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  12. Ulli

    Ulli

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    We have a lot of lilies and other plant material in the pond. Will Formilin or Malachite Green kill them?
     
    Ulli, Jun 17, 2017
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  13. Ulli

    Ulli

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    I purchased another product but haven't used it yet. It is Ich-X from Pond Solutions. It does contain Malachite Green as well. Would that be ok?
     
    Ulli, Jun 17, 2017
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  14. Ulli

    DutchMuch Lord Of The Aquascapes!

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    welcome to the forum, hope your issue is quickly resolved!
     
    DutchMuch, Jun 17, 2017
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  15. Ulli

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Yes, since that contains Malachite Green, use it. The sooner that you begin eradicating this parasite the more likely you are to save your fish.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Jun 17, 2017
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  16. Ulli

    Tula

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    I lean more towards Columnaris, as opposed to Ich. The following is a post dated from 2008 on Koiphen and the accompanying photo of the fish, looks like the OP's fish.

    "I am sure it is Flavobacterium columnare. Early stages of colomnaris infection will be identified by the presence of small white or yellow areas on the Koi; these will result in the pruduction of excess muscus and later may give the Koi a hazy appearance.Later Fin/gill/mouth rot may appear as well."
    [​IMG]
     
    Tula, Jun 17, 2017
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  17. Ulli

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    You could be right as the symptoms of the two (2) parasites are very similar. Diagnosing a heath issue in a fish correctly can be quite difficult and it becomes even more difficult when it is done from a photo or photos. A video of the sick fish would be immensely more informative but even that is not the same are personal hands-on inspection.
    It is like asking your doctor to diagnose a personal health issue by email. Lots of luck!
     
    Meyer Jordan, Jun 17, 2017
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  18. Ulli

    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    And, of course, 3 koi [12" and 15"] in 700 gallons is not the best arrangement for good water conditions!
     
    Mmathis, Jun 17, 2017
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  19. Ulli

    Faebinder

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    If you don't care about snails or scaleless fish like dojo loaches then KMnO4 can be used. Otherwise Malachite green is the way to go. You gotta be careful with dosing both.
     
    Faebinder, Jun 17, 2017
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  20. Ulli

    Ulli

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    Thank you everyone for your suggestions. Since I'm new to having sick koi, I have no idea what KMn04 is. We don't have snails nor do we have scaleless fish. In regards to having 3 koi in a 700 gal. pond, we've had the pond for 12 years already and had up to 9 Koi in it with no health problems. We only had problems with a Heron taking them. We will try your suggestion of the Malachite Green. How much will the rocks in the pond discolor though and will it be permanent?
     
    Ulli, Jun 17, 2017
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