SIEVE FILTERS

Mmathis

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Does anyone have experience with sieve filters, or have any useful information to pass on about them? And if so, what brand?

They look quite interesting as a pre-filter, and alternative to a settling chamber, but they cost so darn much! Just wondering if they're worth it....
 

whiskey

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In my opinion they take the strain from the filter, excuss the pun, im in the process of making one my self with weir gate, once ive put in bottom drain.
see photos to get ideas. HAPPY NEW YEAR
 

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Mmathis

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WHISKEY -- Great drawings! What are you going to use as the sieve; what is the "box" going to be made of?

Keep us posted! These filters look good, but too expensive for my budget....

And a HAPPY NEW YEAR to you, too!
 

whiskey

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mmathis not too dear if you can make a large box, divide it into three[intake-weir/sieve--pump return] trick is making top and bottom the same size plus float base same level as exit.
therefore water flows over weir ...float rises and stops once exit level is reached.
Being under gravity flow is regulated by pump size and box is lined with plastic liner.
Float is made from 3mm perspex, with polystyrene as the floating factor. just enough to keep bouyant. slide track for perspex any plastic or aluminum groove.
good luck
whiskey
ps or you could use large plastic container and divide with timber and seal before screwing together. sieve 300 micron of ebay 600x300...£13.00
 

whiskey

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pleasure all mine.....cannot wait to get started on mine...just weather pouring down here...so need settled weather...feb,march maybe.
 
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Just wondering if they're worth it....
If you have a fish load that requires the level of filtering provided by a sieve then they're worth every penny when thousands of dollars worth of fish are at risk. On the other end most Water Gardens don't even need a bio filter, so a sieve, or even a bio filter, wouldn't be worth the money. In between there are lots of people who just like filters, the more complex and expensive the better, even if not needed. Sieves are worth the price to them. This is after all just a hobby. Many people would consider having a pond at all a waste of money.
 

Mmathis

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WATERBUG -- Unfortunately, gotta agree with your assessment of the "hobby mentality!" I put an aweful lot of time, thought, & energy into my box turtles. Even to the point of just observing them in an attempt to figure out what they like & what works best for their habitat: like changing the location of "hides," or adding more plants here & there so they'll feel less exposed as they travel around. I get HUGE pieces of tree bark & fallen branches from our local Boy Scout Ranch (the Ranger has given me unrestricted scavenge privileges as long as I'm careful not to disturb any existing wildlife habitats out there).

Some would say I'm obsessed, and maybe I am. But my turtles and their welfare IS my hobby, sooo .... That's why I'm adding a pond to their list of amenities :)

Enough "off topic," :) Filtration WILL be VERY important to me (turtles aren't clean critters), but for the extra expense of a sieve, I think I'll wait -- a settling chamber or 2 will be a better way for me to start out. Then, down the line, if that's not working out I can look into a sieve. The sieve design & concept just looked good and I was curious. So they do work, huh? Not just another too-good-to-be-true gimmick! Cool!
 
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Unfortunately, gotta agree with your assessment of the "hobby mentality!"
We live at a great time, when we can afford to use most of our resources on recreation. I see no reason to see this as unfortunate. It is what it is. To be obsessed with a hobby only means one is enjoying it.

The sieve concept is about as basic a filter as it gets. Like having a person 24/7 who nets out any debris as soon as it enters a pond. Instead of moving the net through the water the water is moved over the "net". Debris like fish poop decompose really fast, which uses O2, adds dissolved organic matter to the water which is difficult to remove, etc. Removing that before it decomposes removes that load on O2 and other issues. Not really much of a gimmick, nothing complex going on. Of course this is only important in a pond where the amount of poop produced pushes the level of O2 into a dangerous area or, more commonly, where owners are trying to maximize O2 levels in order to maximize fish growth. So in a Water Garden I guess a sieve could be considered a gimmick since most ponds can handle fish load just fine and owners aren't interested in max growth. Filters like the Skippy, widely used by Water Gardeners, are much more of a gimmick because they're almost completely ineffective and make little logical sense.
 
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At the end none of my ponds had any filter depending on how you define a filter. I did have skimmers, streams and a kind of a gravel bog which I didn't really consider a filter. And a waterfall catch basin that acted as a protein skimmer although that wasn't its primary purpose.

In the first 5 years or so I did use, or try, many kinds of filters and chemicals. Basic filter obsession.
 

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So Waterbug are you proposing that it is possible to keep a watergarden w/ a few fish in it just fine w/o any filter at all and running say a waterfall just for circulation and looks,lots of plants and maybe a few water exchanges now and then and feed fish sparingly perhaps or not at all(let them catch their own stuff), trim the plants, skim out the muck now and then that builds up (leaves etc.), maybe use some floss stuff in a basket too catch green water stuff and this would work just fine? Or do you have other idea's cuz this sounds good to me cuz I'm up for the least amt of work that I can get away with w/o hurting the fish or having an ugly looking pond. Guess I'm always looking for the easy way out,lol!
 
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I can't really take credit for proposing the idea that filters aren't needed to keep a pond. The idea has been around for hundreds of years. It's only recently that the internet has allowed for legions of newly minted "experts" that suddenly all ponds must have filters. And the more filters there are for people to push the more filters are seemed to be required.

I was first introduced to these concepts by people like Greg Bickal back when he was just getting started. Roddy Conrad who even to this day will push a person to really study and understand a subject even when he isn't initially right or blasted for questioning dogma. Norm Meck who's theories on algae from many years ago are still ignored by virtually all "experts" even though his theories are very easy to test. And a few others. So that's were I got the idea.

Crystal clear water 100% of the time does take some effort. I assume that's what you mean by not "ugly looking". I think a stream is the most effective tool. I was first turned on to this idea by I think Greg Bickal, who had bright green new pond water and added a stream and the water clearer within a few days. He was surpised, it wasn't the goal. The pond forum experts stuck to their guns and said the stream had nothing to do with the clearing, that it was a nutrient thing that the algae had been starved even though nutrient levels were easily tested. Quacks don't mind ignoring facts.

It may have just been a coincidence that Greg's pond cleared. The algea's life cycle was probably right at a tipping point and the stream allow Norm Meck's bacteria to get the upper hand. Ponds with streams can certainly be green. If you run a UV filter for just a week or two that also can tip the balance of power into the bacteria's favor. Couple that with a stream and the green water killing bacteria can keep the upper hand for years, possibly forever.

It is of course possible that a "bio filter" might provide the green water killing bacteria an upper hand, but it seems marginal, not very effective. In pond X sure. But for a majority of ponds, probably not. Green algea love sunlight but can be killed by UV, whether from a filter or sunlight. A UV filter is just way more effective. The thin sheet of water in a stream exposed to sun is not a happy place for algae. And it brings them into close proximity to the killer bacteria, bad for algae, good for the bacteria which get a convey belt of food. The same process happens inside a "bio filter", just doesn't seem to be as effective. Could also just be a size issue.

A gravel bog can also be a bad place for algae. The killer bacteria are happy there and, if large enough, an algae cell could be stuck in there, in the dark, for hours, even days. So they can go from having 8 hours of sunlight per day to just a couple. That reduces their ability to reproduce and the killer bacteria can get the upper hand.

That can still leave suspended bits of dead algae in the water. Most people would accept that as crystal clear water. A fabric filter can normally take clear to the next level, as can water changes.

So I would use filters to clear ponds, but only for short periods of time and only for specific needs. Nothing permanent. Certainly no "bio filters". I never came close to having a fish load that required them. I found this by accident. In the beginning I was always experimenting with bio filters, measuring ammonia, and realized ammonia was 0 whether I had a bio filter or not. I had just assumed I needed bio filters from reading internet pond forums.

As for muck...basically harmless or even good for fish by providing food. The only time I ever had an issue with muck is when there was a very heavy leaf load and after about 3 years clumps broke from the bottom and floated to the surface. That had to be cleaned.

Fish loads that push O2 limits are an entirely different story.
 

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