Sigh, here we go again

[CLHQayyum]

A couple of you very helpful experienced folks may remember me from my post a couple weeks ago "What happened??" where I described a mysterious pond mishap.

To refresh your memory, I have a new pond, 91 gallons, store-bought bio-filter/fountain system.

I replaced the fish that died last time with two new 4" butterfly koi and 2 tiny plecostamus. One of the plecostamus died within 24 hours but the 2 koi and the other plecostamus have been doing great for about 2 weeks.

The pond itself also appears to be doing well. Water is crystal clear and I have been using the test strips often to check quality. Everything seems hunky dory.

So why, when I came home last night, was one of my koi having trouble keeping upright and often laying on his side? I went inside to do some research and see if I could figure out what to do, and by the time I came back outside an hour or so later he was done for. The other koi and the plecostumus still seemed fine. After I fished the dead one out, I inspected him closely and he looked ok to me.

This morning, the two survivors still seemed alright. But this afternoon, I came home for lunch, and the other koi was then doing what the koi last night had done. I fully expect that by the time I get home from work this evening he will be dead.

I can not figure out what the problem is and why I can not keep these fish alive for more than 2 weeks!

I worry that perhaps they are not eating because I have never actually seen them eat. I think the food pellets are a bit too big for them, but I assume they are eating them off the bottom after it sinks and can be easily nibbled at.

I also worry that perhaps my water is too warm, although I have read that the range it is at might be a little on the high end, but is ok. It usually hovers somewhere between 75 and 80 degrees. This past weekend, however, we were out of town and it was apparently an extremely hot weekend. When we got home midday Sunday, the water was 85. But the fish seemed to be doing fine in it and by the next day it was back down to a more reasonable temp.

Your thoughts and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

 

[CLHQayyum]

Amazingly, I came home to find my last remaining koi still alive. Not moving, laying on the bottom, but gills going to beat the band.

My husband, convinced that not enough food was the problem, crushed some of the pellets. When they are crushed like that they sink right to the bottom rather than float. I couldn't believe it, but my koi appeared to try to eat it! Maybe he is right (first time for everything :banghead3.

I plan to let the little guy rest and digest for a couple hours, then try feeding him a little bit more.

I still appreciate any other advice if you guys have better ideas!

 

[koiguy1969]

if your pond is getting a lot of sun,temp fluccuations can really stress your fish, and that will continue to be a problem in a small pond that small, exspecially in full sun. shade the pond if possible.

 

[CLHQayyum]

Good advice, thanks. The pond is indeed in full sun,at least for this year, as the trees and shrubs planted around it are still too immature to provide much shade. We just put a gazebo up on the patio tonight and hopefully that will provide some relief, but probably for only part of the day. I'll also put a patio umbrella over the pond and see if that helps. I think this will cut down on the amount of algae I get as well.

The fish seems better now. He's just kind of hanging around the bottom but at least he's not lying on his side anymore. He moves around from time to time to different areas of the pond. I'm regaining hope that he'll make it.

 

[Robyn]

I would suggest aeration as well... or at least find out your O2 level to eliminate it as a possible culprit. High temp + algae is a bad mix for O2 depletion.

 

[bsr8129]

i had a simular problem 9 fish in pond, 4 of them got sick and started to swim on thier sides, pulled them out and put them in quartine, lost 3 of them after a few days, one survied and is doing better now, no idea why they got sick and the others didn't or why the 1 survide.

 

[lfreem]

91 gallons is just way too small for koi in my opinion. I'm assuming the pond is very shallow based on the size you describe, so that makes the heating aspect even worse. It's like buying a great dane puppy and sticking it into a small box and thinking it's never going to turn into a big honking dog that needs lots of room. Koi get big and fast and need lots of room! What will you do when that happens?

For this type of pond, you'd be really better off with some goldfish instead of koi. Try some Sarassa goldfish. They are a lovely red and white and have koi-like patterns--sort of like kohaku. Lots of folks will mistake them for koi, except that they don't have the mouth barbells and are a bit more slender, of course. Sarassa's are very hardy pond fish--and they are very inexpensive. They go for $5.99 at about 4". They are easy to find in places like Petsmart. Small Shubunkin's and comets would also work for you.

My smallest pond is 300 gallons, and I only keep goldfish in it because they do not have the same space/water demands that koi have.

Give yourself a break. Get goldfish instead, and don't think of koi unless you can provide them waaaay more gallonage.

Good luck

 

[newday3000]

I've been keeping aquariums for decades. The secret is lot's of water per inch of fish. I have a 220G tank with 18 fish. The tank runs perfectly since I didn't overload it with fish. change water every 2 weeks (nitrate only

 

[CLHQayyum]

Update: We did end up losing that last koi. I think my pond is just so small that it causes wide temperature fluctuations that stress them out so they won't eat. I believe this is why 2 or 3 weeks later they start dying.

I don't think my pond was too small for them in terms of space, at least for now. There were only 2 of them and they were only about 3 or 4 inches long. They had plenty of room to stretch their fins. I know they get big and space would be an issue later, but I don't believe that to have been a cause of death right now.

So we have given up on koi. Instead, we went to the pet store and got a bunch of little $0.27 feeder comets. I read that they are more tolerant of temperature fluctuations. Also I figure if these guys die, I'll just buy more - they're so cheap. They were destined to be a bigger fish's dinner anyway. But they seem to be doing GREAT!! We are enjoying them much more than we did the koi. They look very much like koi, with similar beautiful markings, but have prettier tails. They are also much more active. They eat well and swim all around all the time, and seem to especially enjoy hanging out near the top. They are only about 2" right now and I understand they grow and breed fast so we know we will definitely need to thin out the population later.

Oh and I also took some suggestions and installed a waterfall rather than the splashy fountain. They didn't seem to like the choppiness of the water when the fountain was in. They like the gentle waterfall much better. I have not built a skippy yet, but plan to eventually. We also put a patio umbrella over the pond to provide more shade and that seems to be helping with the temperature as well as algae growth.

I will try to post a pic later when its not raining.

 

[lfreem]

Congratulations. Comets will do much better in your situation. Good choice on the waterfall, too. I wish you luck with your new "kids."