Skippy type filter, pump, how much is too much?

j.w

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Sissy I misread your post..........thought you wrote "I use a pool net to get drunk from mine"..................LOL!
 
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I've walked around my pond with a net scooping out gunk. Works great for fertilizer. Smells terrible. I am letting the filter do its magic. I've learned to take my time now that I am older. Luckily if a drunk did fall in my pool all he or she would have to do would be to put their feet down and walk right out.
 

addy1

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I've walked around my pond with a net scooping out gunk. Works great for fertilizer. Smells terrible. I am letting the filter do its magic. I've learned to take my time now that I am older. Luckily if a drunk did fall in my pool all he or she would have to do would be to put their feet down and walk right out.
If they can figure out where their feet are........... my pond gunk just smells earthy, good thing I look through it for tads, snails, plants. My trapdoors had babies, have to look for the little suckers so I don't throw them out and they become plant fertilizer.
 
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I went ahead and created a little waterfall from my main pond to my lily pond. I notice that the lily potted in a pot without a bottom tray, that keeps the roots in the pot, grows much faster and flowers more than the lilies that I use the bottom tray with. The roots from the free growing plant sprawl across the lily pone. I imagine they are sucking up the waste and other nutrients. Just wanted to share. Enjoy the holiday weekend. Rob
 

j.w

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Yep Rob those lilies are hungry little suckers looking for any way to get more nutrients. I'm gonna tie a rock to mine next Spring and let them just sit w/o a pot and see how it goes.
Happy holiday to you also. I will be laboring all weekend but maybe on Monday (Labor Day)I will enjoy a rest. Did the pond today. Tomorrow the yard.
hammock223.gif
 

koiguy1969

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its too hot, and humid here for outdoor labor here....but tommorrow starts a major cool down...10 day forecast says 76* will be our highest temp for the next week anyways....wow, i hope this early temp drop doesnt lead to an early "winter" drop as well. i want to keep my guys outside as long as possible. mid / late october would be nice. but they'll come inside regardless once i see the herons start flying south.
 

addy1

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We have rain coming today and for the rest of the week, so jw you have our sun we have your rain.........but we sure have needed it.
Tomorrow will be a inside day, 100% chance of rain.
Need to get our underwater cam better rain protected before it hits.
 
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Skippy is a bio filter for removing ammonia if you have more fish than than the pond alone can handle. When the pads get coated with muck it covers the bacteria and they die. Not to worry, the bacteria are happy enough living elsewhere in the pond so I'd assume ammonia is zero.

The single cell green algae is in the 25 micron range. Here's pantyhose and a much more dense nylon cloth under a microscope. The right side picture shows a few bits of trapped single cell algae. But most of the space is wide open. Those pads in the skippy are way-way more porous. Muck settles on the pads just as it settles on the pond bottom. The pond is much more effective because the "flow rate" is near zero. Hard to match that in a skippy. Vacuum the muck off the bottom of the pond and you'll get way more out of the pond than a skippy will ever do.
Pantyhose-FineBag.jpg

My point is those pads in the skippy do little to produce clear water. There's no logical reason to think they would.

Stuff that settles isn't the stuff making the water unclear. Much finer stuff is in play.

There is a bacteria, separate from the ammonia converters, that do produce an enzyme that breaks the walls of single cell algae and kills it. But that bacteria isn't well understood and algae have their own defenses too. My personal guess is the algae have to start dying first from some other cause, before the bacteria can grow to enough numbers to make a difference.

Another killer of single algae is string algae. It can produce a chemical to kill the single cell algae, called allelopathy. The single cell algae also have weapons against string algae. But in general the string algae seems to win more. Adding even a small amount of string algae can sometimes clear a pond in a couple of days. Then again, somethimes it's the string algae that dies.

When people say adding plants to clear a pond it's the hitch hiking string algae that should get the credit. But that's human nature. "I added plants to clear the pond, the pond cleared, so it must have been the plants." Of course there's no logic to plants removing enough nutrients to starve single cell algae. They need little and are better at getting it, being that they're throughout the water column. If you measure the nutrients in a green pond and then after the pond clears there will be of course a much higher level in the clear pond since the dead algae release nutrients back into the water. Adding a potted plant to a pond adds way more nutrients than they remove.

Norm Meck did some experiments years ago that showed water from a clear pond killed green water algae.
http://users.vcnet.com/rrenshaw/GRENH2O.html

UV lights are very effective against single cell algae. You already have one installed, the sun. The UV filters are just way more powerful in a small space. But the sun will have the same effect over a longer period. Single cell algae will form clumps, called colonies. That is when pantyhose type filters can start being effective. The colonies less buoyant and more likely to settle.

So over time there is a chance something will kill the single cell algae and the pond will clear. You'll still have some of course, and the dead algae will be suspended in the water column making it less than perfectly clear. Fabric filters are very effective at that point.

The test should be if a filter is collecting muck it's a mechanical filter. To be effective mechanical filters have to be cleaned often. Once a day, every couple of days...often. Good bacteria won't grow on media that is always getting covered.

No muck collecting and you have a bio filter, a home for all kinds of bacteria. One of the best bio filters for hobbyists I think is a stream. Lots of surface area that is always being cleaned free of muck allowing for bacteria to grow. They're trouble free. Back in the day when I cleaned ponds I don't think I ever found a "bio filter" that wasn't clogged with muck. Completely worthless in all regards. But you can't tell ponders that. They want to see that box "filtering". When the pond clears on its own the yell "Eureka!", the filter worked. String algae and bacteria never get the credit.
 

koiguy1969

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this is why i pull my water to my biofilter from 1/3 to 1/2 the depth of my pond and its prefiltered (before the pump) thru 4 layers of mechanical and 2 layers of fines, and activated carbon. my water looks clean and clear before hitting the pump, let alone my bio filter. a second pump draws from the bottom and is mechanically filtered (also before the pump) for debris / solids, and is venturied and dumped into the top of my filter just in front of the outlet weir for circulaion and aeration, not thru the filter.and gives my added waterfall volume. 1200 gph fully filtered, and 1000 gph mechanically filtered for about 2200 gph thru the falls. i get virtually no algea to speak of in the pond,but it grows like mad in the top of my filter and i only remove enough to maintain proper flow.
 
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Thank you Waterbug for joining our discussion!

J.W., Addy and Koiguy: Last year, before I made my koi pond deeper, I had a small stream from the smaller deeper pond to the bigger pond. I noticed that the muck would collect in the rocks and the water was clearer, coincidenc? I know there are so many other factors at play. I am trying to plant shrubs and small trees around the pond for shade since the pond is almost in the full sun. I do notice that the lily pond cycles on its own to almost clear without any type of man made filtration. Funny thing is that is it full of string algae. So I tend to believe there is a positive correlation. When I added string algae to my larger pond in the past. Disaster! I plugged my submersible pump. Next I put string algae in the bio filter. Disaster again. I plugged the outlet and water poured over the edge. I can attempt to put sting algae in a perforated box on one of the pond sides. I am also considering making a small bog out of the lily pond and just floating my lilies in a small 100 gallon stock tank on the deck. So many options and so many great ideas on the forum. I worked this morning removing the bottoms of my other two lilies and repotted some bougainvillea. Now it is time to rest and enjoy the rest of the day.

Maybe happy hour with the misses after a morning run.

Rob
 
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I did a bunch of experiments with string algae and single cell algae. I was growing single algae in a separate pool to test a filter. I unintentionally added some string algae to the green pool and it cleared in a day. Not the results I wanted because I wanted the green water. I thought I'd found the cure. I did other experiments like you, adding string algae to other pools, filters, etc. Hit and miss. Some times the string algae died. Apparently it is a complex dance. I think it has to do with the specific species of algae, both types, and more importantly where they are in their life cycle. I gave up trying to understand the exact conditions. The more I learned the more questions I had and the harder they were to answer.

One thing I am pretty sure of is there is little correlation between muck and algae. They are two separate worlds each with there own cycle. The only interaction I've seen is if muck mechanically covers an algae which is rare. I think adding clay to the water does this.
 
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I thank you all for the feedback and interest in this topic. I am happy with my current setup after all the comments. My plans are to purchase a UV light in the near future and referb. my other filter into something more efficient. I am interested in the pvc tubes that are cut to a one inch length. I want to learn more about that setup. I think I will start another thread for that discussion. I wonder about the reduction in algae in my pond now that the days are getting shorter and cooler. Once again maybe another idea for another thread. I am looking forward to the cooler weather. :moped:
 

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