Strong turtles, securing rocks

[tinycat]

I plan to build a short stream and was wondering if there is a way to secure rocks to a liner so my turtles can't rearrange things. Or if securing is not feasible, how should the stream bed be shaped to avoid moving rocks? A shallow stream, most rocks are about 8" diameter, some twice that size, and lots of smaller rocks. The stream will be a meander with an elevation drop of about 24" over 10 feet. The stream will empty into a small pond, and will be fed at the top by a "waterfall" coming out of a skippy type filter. Turtles like to climb and grab onto rocks, and they are strong. 10" sliders. Currently, there is a big pile of dirt sitting next to and a bit above the pond, waiting for me to shape it.

 

[Stephen Noble]

Is the idea to use rocks to slow the water's velocity or just for decoration? To create a meandering brook vs a fast-flowing stream? Rather than 'dump' a bunch of ideas, I'll wait to make sure I understand first.

 

[tinycat]

Meandering brook, a place for turtles to hang out. Thinking they might rearrange rocks that hold the edges of the stream secure. I ordered some waterfall foam, don't know what turtles might do with that stuff. Tear it apart? eat it? I can probably acquire additional larger rocks, but they have to be what I can lift by myself and nab from a not too distant location. On hand I have a lot of smaller rocks. The rocks I'm concerned about are those that form the sides of the stream and hold the water to its channel.

 

[Stephen Noble]

The shoulders of the stream need rocks of sufficient mass to hold the liner in place and there is plenty on line even on this site to help with that. But what I think you are asking is about the smaller rocks within the stream and how to keep your RES from redecorating. Tough task. You might consider building a few dams along the stream's route to not only contain rocks but also disrupt the water's velocity. They will eat anything. An RES would eat a tin can if they could. Expect them to eat or at least shred the foam. Mine did. Personally, I would make your stream with a drop off so the turtles can't enter. That way, you can have plants and flowers too.

 

[GBBUDD]

Thinking they might rearrange rocks that hold the edges of the stream secure. I ordered some waterfall foam,

turtles will destroy foam in seconds IF THEY CAN GET TO IT.... you could use foam along the bottom of an 8:" rock and if you place more 8 inch rocks around that one if will become harder for them to rip apart enough foam around the rock to dislodge it. but for my money i would get whats called a grout bag. Cheap and easy to find at any home store. mix mortar mix 3 scoops to one scoop of portland cement . and make it to the point that it will not dump out of the grout bag . you curl over the top just like a pasty bag. and twist squeeze roll the bag what ever works best for you. cement the rocks in protect your liner i have seen a large red ear slider i believe they could claw trough epdm or most liners.
Don't want to make that much mortar? do half foam and half mortar. sealing up the rocks keeping pop from them from getting under the rocks will go a long way in health benifits Turtle poo is among the highest in salmonella .

I agree @Stephen Noble MAKING SMALL PONDS on the way down collecting pools/EXPECIALY when the little pool becomes a small pond and is substantially wider than the falls. This will give the turtles zones to work and not just destroy one area. These pools can drastically reduce whats known as water in motion. in short if the power goes out where does all the water end up ? is it in a larger pond at the bottom that can absorb all the water or is it having the hold only the water that was falls to a pool.

 

[tinycat]

Great info, thanks. I have had 5 female RE sliders in a bare bones pond for years, just bare liner, not EDPM, not sure what it is, it's thick and stiff. Always wanted to give them habitat other than just the small pond and a landing on the liner, and a bit of dirt to lay eggs in. The pond is basically a hole in the ground, capped with cinder block on top and a wood frame/lid on that. Thought I'd give them a stream and planted play area outside the pond, and connect the two, but if play means destruction, I have to rethink my plans. Maybe have all plants in pots, but then again, maybe they will figure out how to climb inside of pots?

Do sliders like to wander about, or do they just swim and bask? Would they get some walking exercise if given the opportunity in a larger enclosure? Or will I burn more calories building the thing?

If I go forward with my build, I like the concrete grout suggestion, if I need to hold rocks in place, or direct water. I live near the desert and went on a rock collecting trip yesterday. Came back with a large load of rocks.

 

[Stephen Noble]

Maybe have all plants in pots, but then again, maybe they will figure out how to climb inside of pots?

Do sliders like to wander about, or do they just swim and bask? Would they get some walking exercise if given the opportunity in a larger enclosure? Or will I burn more calories building the thing?

Absolutely, they will climb in the pots if the plants are within reach. They wander. The biggest challenge is keeping them contained. They crawl over fences, under fences, over walls...name it. They are masters of escape. I have been outwitted so many times over the years. It is simply amazing how determined and creative they can be. Take them for walks in a contained area, under direct supervision. 30-minutes of morning or evening sunlight is wonderful for them. Never mid-day. They need a basking log or island. Five RES is a bunch. They can become territorial and fight. How large is your pond? Could you post an image? An image will really help. One more thought, you mentioned that they bask on the liner. Can you provide a floating island?

 

[tinycat]

My sliders have never put any holes in this old liner I have (going on 12 years for this liner I think). I was considering EDPM for the stream, as rubber is flexible and easy to shape (I have a large piece of that available), and ordering a large piece to redo the pond itself. Do slider claws shred that type of liner material? Is that a bad option for a slider pond? Their nails are pretty sharp, but maybe climbing around on rocks will dull the tips a bit (currently they have zero rocks to deal with claws).
I do have a large enough pond at the bottom of the system to hold the water in a stream addition (thinking short stream, so not too much additional water), and plan on a small pool or two in that stream.

 

[Stephen Noble]

Do slider claws shred that type of liner material? Is that a bad option for a slider pond? Their nails are pretty sharp, but maybe climbing around on rocks will dull the tips a bit (currently they have zero rocks to deal with claws).

I've never had a problem of them shredding the liner. My indoor pond is EDPM and it is really tough stuff. So far, the liner has resisted claws and biting. Not sure your rocks will dull their claws much. Part of my island is a sandstone rock and it does not seem to do much to dull the claws. What are the dimensions of your pond?

 

[GBBUDD]

I've never had a problem of them shredding the liner. My indoor pond is EDPM and it is really tough stuff. So far, the liner has resisted claws and biting. Not sure your rocks will dull their claws much. Part of my island is a sandstone rock and it does not seem to do much to dull the claws. What are the dimensions of your pond?

@Stephen Noble I didn't realize you had an indoor turtle pond . I take it you let them brumate indoors.

And yes res are wanderers that is why they are the most invasive turtle in North america.

 

[Stephen Noble]

I do @GBBUDD! No brumation. Active all year in the Florida sunshine! The pond is heated (rarely needed) and has UVB and infrared lighting over the island. I can't keep res outdoors because as you mentioned, they are invasive. I have to get a yearly permit from the state.

 

[GBBUDD]

Wow that's dedication . Around here they are well over 50%

 

[Stephen Noble]

The little guys are worth the effort especially when it is a rescue situation. They are really cool aren't they?

 

[GBBUDD]

That they be. i was going to borrow one that's full grown from a friend when Aquascapes Greg whittstock came to my pond. But the guy who had them due to the massive rains we had prior to his arival they got out. It would have made his day.