The challenging pond build (uk)

[kelpie]

As mentioned elsewhere; If Iwas going to build a pond I wouldnt do it here but this is what I got.

Pic 1. the site, camera facing east. between the side of the house on the left and an adjoining garage on the right, 8m long, with a boundary wall and pear tree. 5m wide narrowing to about 3m, with sewers, rising main, gutter runoffs and cable runs spread liberally across the site. If I was looking for an ideal site for a pond, I wouldn't look here. Oh and there's a 2m slope from rear to front so that makes the waterfall a necessity by definition.

Objectives
Wildlife pond, (I think)
Easy egress for critters and dogs should they explore it, I know the dogs will.
low or zero maintenance..
decorative with the workings hidden behind willow screens or similar
12000 ltrs capacity pond
waterfall maximum of 3.3 litres per second at full blast... maybe

Plan- DRAFT- pic 2
sloping front edge, waterfall centre rear, rebate to hide cables and pipework
submersible pump running 10,000 lph feeding 6 bay kockney koi, but now looking at raised bog type filters

Work done so far
Sewer, rising main rerouted along right side of pic 1
4" conduit for cable runs laid left side of pic 1
main pool dug out while the digger was here a couple of years back, needs redefining!! 4.5m x 2m x 1.5m size
Outdoor mains sockets installed, running from their own breaker

questions yet to figure out
liner size and material
filter system
plants to use
and many many more.

 

[GBBUDD]

As mentioned elsewhere; If Iwas going to build a pond I wouldnt do it here but this is what I got.

Pic 1. the site, camera facing east. between the side of the house on the left and an adjoining garage on the right, 8m long, with a boundary wall and pear tree. 5m wide narrowing to about 3m, with sewers, rising main, gutter runoffs and cable runs spread liberally across the site. If I was looking for an ideal site for a pond, I wouldn't look here. Oh and there's a 2m slope from rear to front so that makes the waterfall a necessity by definition.

Objectives
Wildlife pond, (I think)
Easy egress for critters and dogs should they explore it, I know the dogs will.
low or zero maintenance..
decorative with the workings hidden behind willow screens or similar
12000 ltrs capacity
waterfall maximum of 3.3 litres per second at full blast... maybe

Plan- DRAFT- pic 2
sloping front edge, waterfall centre rear, rebate to hide cables and pipework
submersible pump running 10,000 lph feeding 6 bay kockney koi, but now looking at raised bog type filters

Work so far
Sewer, rising main rerouted along right side of pic 1
4" conduit for cable runs laid left side of pic 1
main pool dug out while the digger was here a couple of years back, needs redefining!! 4.5m x 2m x 1.5m size

questions yet to figure out
liner size and material
filter system
plants to use
and many many more.

Not a fan of the square ponds but that's what keep the world interesting everyone has there own flavor. Here's a thought for you.

 

[kelpie]

thanks for that GBBudd

No, neither am I a fan of square ponds but my options are limited in this location and you fight the battles you can win . However, the NEXT pond... lol

 

[kelpie]

A quick update, I think I'm on version 54 of the design at the moment..

Kockney Koi or similar type 6 bay vortex and media filter configuration has been superseded by a 2m x 2m bog filter in a bypass filter arrangement. (Pond size is 9 sq m). Thanks to all for the input on that one! Saved about £100 and loads of time on that decision.

Plumbing and pipework are just about finalised. The flow chart if not the precise number of fittings required, but theres about £100 worth of Screwfix's finest 40mm PVC pipework involved.

Liner is probably going to be 45mil HDRPE, over underlay, over sand. Capacity looking at a total of about just under 15,000 litres. (4,000 US gallons)

One of the walls, the left one in the photo, is going to need reinforcing / stabilising. The ground is full of bricks, bits of metal and old clay roof tiles... when they build the house (1960) this was where they put the midden of builders rubbish! (more fun)

The todo list is still too long. Getting the water out of the bog filter the three metres to the waterfall is still an unknown... several ideas but none that seem viable or practical given the location and other constraints.

but, yes, I'm having fun and it's not even dug yet.

 

[kelpie]

did I say fun? Heres a view of the sides of the pond, as you can see its not ideal Liner perforator if ever there was. I'll pull out all the obvious sharp or even slightly sharp edges and put a couple of layers of underlay on it before I risk putting the liner anywhere near it.

 

[jmajid]

I admire your courage! and am very interested in how you progress with your raised bog and how you will end up moving the water to your waterfall. I have an idea for a raised bed but dont know how to get it to my primary waterfall which is about 4 feet above water surface and about 6 feet above normal ground level. Do keep us updated and keep the photos coming...

 

[kelpie]

thanks jmajid... I'm in the "engineering challenges to be overcome" mind set at the moment.

Talking of which, i may have a solution that could be of interest to you;

The bog filter has to be above ground in this location, too many problems under it... Its going to be about 2m above water level in the pond and 4m horizontally, so I'm thinking of using railway sleepers for the walls of the bog filter. My issue is getting the water out of the bog filter back to the main pond waterfall.

What i'm currently thinking is to extend the main pond liner under the bog filter and add another liner inside the sleeper walls of the bog filter! That way, the water can waterfall out of the bog filter land anywhere in the main pond liner and run downhill as a stream into the main pond waterfall.. With plenty of suitable underlay under the main pond liner and especially the area under the bog filter (which could easily exceed a couple of tons over 4 sq m.) it would then get channelled into the area of the waterfall back into the main pond. It might perhaps be easier to visualise as a stream 3m wide at the top, coming down to a waterfall of whatever width is required... with a bog filter sitting in the stream.

Another advantage I can see is that as I'm looking to have the bog filter in a bypass arrangement, eg, not all the pumped water goes into the bog filter. The bypass water can be fed into the 'stream' at any point or height that is aesthetically pleasing.

I'm wondering about if I should mount the sleepers off the pond liner on some sort of block to prevent the sleepers sitting in water... But, that would leave whatever the block height is of unsupported liner. Not too keen on that idea. I could use offcuts of liner under the sleepers, but that would keep any leech water in just as well as keeping any out. I'm exploring the idea of using a treatment called Black Jack, a waterproof paint to cover the sleepers..

Still an idea in progress but (parts of it) may be applicable to your situation?

 

[GBBUDD]

The bypass water can be fed into the 'stream' at any point or height that is aesthetically pleasing.

Or can be used as a circulation jet in the pond.


We have black jack here as well its a asphalt based tar. It works good for what your thinking but is toxic to fish. So make sure run off can't get into the pond.

If your pond is rectangular you could take your protection of the liner a bit further. Due to the bricks clay tile that can get very sharp. I saw you were thinking of sand for the bottom which is a great move but the sides were not so lucky. I know of a few products that may do the job for you . Azek is one of the two products I used as like yourself I unearthed the home construction dump and mine was Loaded with glass. I boxed the whole thing in with 1/2 " Azek Or a 1/8 inch fiberglass Matt with asphalt infused sheeting. So far so good no leaks and the water sat all winter and didn't drop.

 

[kelpie]

Or can be used as a circulation jet in the pond.

yes indeed, although would that be more easily done as a tap from nearer the pump?

 

[GBBUDD]

Not posive as to what your thinking. But yes you want all plumbing lines as short as possible intake and returns. I have found my two circulation jets from the main pump are invaluable as I can have them aid in the fall with leaves and just add motion to push toward the negative edge the rest of the year.

 

[brokensword]

thanks jmajid... I'm in the "engineering challenges to be overcome" mind set at the moment.

Talking of which, i may have a solution that could be of interest to you;

The bog filter has to be above ground in this location, too many problems under it... Its going to be about 2m above water level in the pond and 4m horizontally, so I'm thinking of using railway sleepers for the walls of the bog filter. My issue is getting the water out of the bog filter back to the main pond waterfall.

What i'm currently thinking is to extend the main pond liner under the bog filter and add another liner inside the sleeper walls of the bog filter! That way, the water can waterfall out of the bog filter land anywhere in the main pond liner and run downhill as a stream into the main pond waterfall.. With plenty of suitable underlay under the main pond liner and especially the area under the bog filter (which could easily exceed a couple of tons over 4 sq m.) it would then get channelled into the area of the waterfall back into the main pond. It might perhaps be easier to visualise as a stream 3m wide at the top, coming down to a waterfall of whatever width is required... with a bog filter sitting in the stream.

Another advantage I can see is that as I'm looking to have the bog filter in a bypass arrangement, eg, not all the pumped water goes into the bog filter. The bypass water can be fed into the 'stream' at any point or height that is aesthetically pleasing.

I'm wondering about if I should mount the sleepers off the pond liner on some sort of block to prevent the sleepers sitting in water... But, that would leave whatever the block height is of unsupported liner. Not too keen on that idea. I could use offcuts of liner under the sleepers, but that would keep any leech water in just as well as keeping any out. I'm exploring the idea of using a treatment called Black Jack, a waterproof paint to cover the sleepers..

Still an idea in progress but (parts of it) may be applicable to your situation?

I'll show you what I did below. My plumbing comes up over one side (and is camouflaged) so all piping is IN/OVER the pond/liner. My way also keeps the wood out of the water and is protected by the liner.

{EDIT} I drew this as wood everywhere ( box) but the ground will support the liner, so only sides needed for your purpose.

 

[kelpie]

Not posive as to what your thinking. But yes you want all plumbing lines as short as possible intake and returns. I have found my two circulation jets from the main pump are invaluable as I can have them aid in the fall with leaves and just add motion to push toward the negative edge the rest of the year.

I didn't explain what I meant very clearly. "Tap off nearer the pump"; a small diameter pipe from the pressurised side of the pump with a ball valve to adjust flow and steerable in the required direction.

Dont think I'll be needing that, as there are no trees nearby and the prevailing wind is from behind the camera in the site pic. Having said that, I now fully expect leaves and detritus to travel long distances just to get in the water

 

[poconojoe]

I too felt getting the return water back to the pond would be a challenge. My existing waterfall was a little high in relation to what was going to be the bog (water) height. I thought more about this than anything when envisioning what the build would entail.
Long story short, I ended up lowering the "waterfall". Even though I wouldn't really consider it a "waterfall" at all, I do like how it came out, but it's more like a couple of ledges.

 

[kelpie]

Or can be used as a circulation jet in the pond.


We have black jack here as well its a asphalt based tar. It works good for what your thinking but is toxic to fish. So make sure run off can't get into the pond.

If your pond is rectangular you could take your protection of the liner a bit further. Due to the bricks clay tile that can get very sharp. I saw you were thinking of sand for the bottom which is a great move but the sides were not so lucky. I know of a few products that may do the job for you . Azek is one of the two products I used as like yourself I unearthed the home construction dump and mine was Loaded with glass. I boxed the whole thing in with 1/2 " Azek Or a 1/8 inch fiberglass Matt with asphalt infused sheeting. So far so good no leaks and the water sat all winter and didn't drop.

ah, ok.. scratch the BLACK JACK. The pond will have minnows, sticklebacks and other indigenous fish. Not planning on goldfish or Koi.

The pond is going to need something on the side walls, I'm really not happy about those walls. What were some of the other products you were thinking of? Soffit plastic was one that came to my mind... whatever it is, needs to be flexible and ideally puncture proof.

the fibre glass... did you buy ready made sheets of it or resin it in place on the walls??

 

[GBBUDD]

When you start back filling behind a sheet of fiberglass or ever azek you'll need to do it slowly so as you fill the pond you can fill in behind the fiberglass with sand to fill the voids. It sounds harder then It is