The usefulness (or uslessness)of a test kit

[Lisak1]

I have not yet met a beginner that had started with the "perfect pond"...

Hmmm... well I won't say perfect, but we are definitely beginners and we have had zero issues with our pond. We were lucky enough to have the opportunity to meet lots of experienced GARDEN POND owners and did lots and lots of listening and learning before the first shovel ever hit the dirt. (And that GARDEN POND part is important - people need to know what kind of pond they desire to own, as there are definite differences. I know nothing about managing a dedicated koi pond, for example, and wouldn't dream of offering advice to someone who does.)

My husband comes from an aquarium background, so he was very much into water testing in the beginning. But we quickly learned to observe our pond - the water, the plants, and the fish - and believe what we could see with our eyes. Healthy fish and plants are the goal and as long as we achieve and maintain that, we consider ourselves successful.

We were just at one of our favorite garden centers today and I had to shake my head at all the "pond products" on the shelf. It's like modern medicine - every problem has a drug that you can take and every drug leads to another problem... which has another drug that you can take - and so on, forever and ever. Start chasing pond problems with products and you'll be at it forever. The best tool in a new pond owners pocket is patience.

 

[crsublette]

Hmmm... well I won't say perfect, but we are definitely beginners and we have had zero issues with our pond. We were lucky enough to have the opportunity to meet lots of experienced GARDEN POND owners and did lots and lots of listening and learning before the first shovel ever hit the dirt. (And that GARDEN POND part is important - people need to know what kind of pond they desire to own, as there are definite differences. I know nothing about managing a dedicated koi pond, for example, and wouldn't dream of offering advice to someone who does.)

Honestly @Lisak1 , I think you are being humble...

After considering what you've done ... You BEGAN with a step ahead of what I would consider to be defined as the typical "beginners"...


...mainly because... you utilized the wisdom gained from other experienced owners...which all beginners should do...

 

[crsublette]

If people are considering being pond owners or want to be better pond owners...

...then do exactly as @Lisak1 did...

...talk to other pond owners...

...and.. if available... look for a local water garden pond club... these clubs always seem to be everywhere, there is even one near my area called the "Ogallala Water Garden Society" (the name of the primary underground water aquifer is called "ogallala", if anyone was curious) ... and there is even a "Koi Society" club in my area...

...and my area is very rural...

 

[Lisak1]

Thanks @crsublette - I've always been one to prefer letting others make the mistakes and tell me about them!

If anyone is reading this in the greater Chicagoland area, I would highly recommended the Aquascape pond walks. They are scheduled once per month from June through September - the next one is August 20. It's a self guided tour - you just show up at any or all of the houses on rhe tour and have a look around. Most pond owners are available to chat with visitors and love to share about their pond. We did pond tours for two summers before we built our own pond. It's a great way to see all kinds of ponds and water features "in action"!

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Of course... I am not talking about a virgin system...

Nitrites appears as nitrification reverses (due to disrupted denitrification) as oxygen content decreases as well as organic presence accumulates. Even a pond or any mud aquaculture system that is at 6 ppm DO can have sections within the pond, even at the pond floor, that is oxygen deprived if the water circulation is poor or not proportional. ((I am not talking about stratification.)) ... There are HUGE PTO driven aerators that mud ponds utilize to fix this problem. This is why mud aquaculture systems are always dredged of its organics... This practice is even done for Nishikigoi mud ponds and these Nishikigoi mud ponds often maintain a fish density of 1 koi per 2,500 gallons with little additional feeding.

This same occurrence is witnessed in a MBBR as well... You would think... How can that be since MBBR's are always aerated? ... Well... microbial decay actually accumulates on the nitrification microbes, increasing in layers thus suffocating nitrification and creating a disrupted denitrification process... Nitrites are produced... Easy fix... Increase water circulation via aeration or increase oxygenation....

Once Nitrites appear, as water circulation is increased, then this oxygenated water should very soon come into contact with the proper microbial that convert this to nitrates... and this can only occur if water circulation is adequate. Thus... if there is an accumulation of Nitrites, then there is a lack of water circulation. Anytime there is an increase of Nitrite in a mud pond aquaculture system or a tank culture... then the reason is due to poor oxygenation...

As organics increase in a pond, then very difficult to maintain proper oxygenation without the significant aid of algae blooms to help with decomposition as well as increasing oxygen concentration. However, if the algae blocks (or suffocates) water surface contact with air (atmosphere), then this actually deprives the water of oxygen more than the oxygen algae contributes to the water.

Algae is an excellent aid to increase organic decomposition and nutrient consumer... Most often... when there are significant algae blooms, then this means there are... both... TOO MUCH of... organic accumulations and/or nutrients in the system.... this is why phosphate binders are always a temporary fix...

Algae is Nature's ally as well to filtering the water.. as long as it does not suffocate the water... and nothing is always in "balance"... when concerning Nature... Nature is always in flux with the appearance of "balance"...

Need a few citations to support all of this, as I could find nothing that even mentions any of this.

 

[crsublette]

Need a few citations to support all of this, as I could find nothing that even mentions any of this.

Hmmm... and my guess is you do not have any citations to refute it... unless you obviously have citations to refute it... and quite odd you do not share them since you appear quite confident in your refutation here...


Only about less than half of what I learn is obtained from "Googling" and forums... Rest of it actually comes from real life, involving real relationships (that go beyond the Internet), also involving observations, and actually having conversations with individuals that I have had no good reason to doubt and plenty of reasons to give them the benefit of doubt.... and... Sorry, I am not going to "name drop" unless they have already publicly offered the material...

...and be quite rude of me to make the declaration of... "Sorry, I will need some more credentials or citations to actually trust what you say." ... THAT will take a fella really far with making friends !!


If ya don't believe it... then no skin off my back.

 

[crsublette]

Need a few citations to support all of this, as I could find nothing that even mentions any of this.

... and so if you do not actually have anything substantial to offer... than this simple statement of yours... then I see no reason why I should not act the same in return... so to convince you...

Sorry Meyer, these short replies ya give, without any elaboration, is rather quite boorish.

...and only encourages these threads to become "cluttered with non-essential information"... as you so often like to say to me...

 

[Meyer Jordan]

... and so if you do not actually have anything substantial to offer... than this simple statement of yours... then I see no reason why I should not act the same in return... so to convince you...

Sorry Meyer, these short replies ya give, without any elaboration, is rather quite boorish.

I will refrain from replying to your last comment which is obviously a veiled insult.

Whether or not I believe you is unimportant. What is important is that others are on the Forum eager to obtain the correct information concerning this hobby. Information that can be supported.
I need not believe you because I have ready access to any information and its supporting sources.
Yes, I will be questioning some of what was said in Post #27. But I will do it at my convenience not 'on demand'.
Right now, I would rather sleep.

 

[crsublette]

Whether or not I believe you is unimportant.

Oh... au contraire... if that were the situation... then I doubt we would be having this exchange.

...if it actually was quite unimportant...

Need a few citations to support all of this, as I could find nothing that even mentions any of this.

Yes, I will be questioning some of what was said in Post #27.

Awesome... appears we made a little progress...

I will refrain from replying to your last comment which is obviously a veiled insult.

Whether or not I believe you is unimportant. What is important is that others are on the Forum eager to obtain the correct information concerning this hobby. Information that can be supported.
I need not believe you because I have ready access to any information and its supporting sources.
Yes, I will be questioning some of what was said in Post #27. But I will do it at my convenience not 'on demand'.
Right now, I would rather sleep.

Very good...

...and so...

henceforth, I look forward to every informational post and opinion post of yours... to be cited as well... since you desire to hold this standard for others... I look forward to you holding this standard to your own posts... lest others think of ya as something else...

...since apparently that is your standard on how anyone will believe they have "obtained the correct information concerning this hobby"...

 

[crsublette]

Quite obvious your "ready access to information and supporting sources" are not so readily available so to substantiate your reasons to refute what I wrote...

You're already failing to hold your self to your own standard...


Sorry, I hope that previous post and this current post of mine doesn't come across as a "veiled insult"...

But I will do it at my convenience not 'on demand'.

Ya have plenty of time... Take all the time ya want... I'm not going anywhere... It's all good!


Remember... You're the one that started this little foray... and I answered ya... and ya didn't like my answer... so now we have this...


I would have been fine if you wanted to do this in private mail... but... obviously ya didn't want to... and so we have this...


...so, why don't we just leave it at that... and stop "cluttering the thread with non-essential" posts... as you so often say to me...


...turnabout is fair play... my friend...

 

[MitchM]

Charles, you're asking Meyer Jordan to prove a negative, which you know can't be done.

 

[MitchM]

Opinions I've read here so far regarding test kits sound more like the issue is proper education as to how to use the test kit results, not that having the numerical results are the problem.
That gets back to how important proper education about the nitrogen cycle in the first place, doesn't it?
We are always asking people that post problems here, for actual numerical test kit values.
- so why all this negative opinion about test kits?

(let's not get off on some tangent about how too much algae deprives a pond of oxygen)

.

 

[Lisak1]

Here's how I feel about test kits - get one if you're having problems that won't resolve. And by problems I mean sick, dying, or dead fish. Too often though the test RESULTS become the problem. "My ph was high so I added blah blah blah...and now I have eleven more problems plus my fish all packed up and moved out." Or the problem (generally green water or excess algae) isn't really a problem that requires testing. Observe the condition and correct the factors that exacerbate it. Use your plants, fish, and water as the "test".

When we first started ponding I was frustrated by my slow growing, yellow, sickly looking pond plants. The garden center told me "your ph is too high - you need to bring it down". Thankfully the same day we stopped at a pond store where the owner - way more experienced in ponding than the guy at the garden center - said "nah. Your pond just needs time to develop. The plants depend on the fish to fertilize the water - give em time!" And he was of course absolutely right. Same pond, same ph, following year - beautiful green plants. I'm so thankful we didn't start testing and dosing. We knew what our ph was and knew it was high but in the range that was fine for our fish. Had we started tinkering who knows what would have been next.

So - not negative on testing at all, especially for newly established ponds. Know what you're working with... But then put the kit away.

DISCLAIMER - as I said in an earlier post, the little I know about ponds apples to garden style Eco-ponds. If you have a dedicated koi pond full of expensive fish, IGNORE ME! Ha!

 

[Usman]

If you are experienced you can tell alot by observing fish behaviour and appearance of water and take some precautionary measures , even if u hv kit and reading you would do similer so not much difference , may b helful for starters or if ur in a new house or new environment for start

 

[crsublette]

Charles, you're asking Meyer Jordan to prove a negative, which you know can't be done.

Sorry, that's just a cop-out... Of course a negative can proven, by simply disproving the positive. It is just that people normally think in the positive.. This doesn't mean a negative can't be proven.