"Undoing" the mortared waterfall to lower or widen it

[lachancesare]

OK....tried to fix the problem I created when I build the waterfall but to no avail. Here is my problem:
I have a two pond duo, one at ground level, the other above ground beside it. I built the waterall but realized as I was doing the stone/mortor coping on the upper pond that the level of the falls was too high. (of course I had already mortared the two liners beside the waterfall and so had to by hand, fish my way under the fall and try to lower it that way.)
When I finished the stone/mortar coping and began to run the pump, the upper pond filled above my expected level. I do not want to lower the power of the pump but I am afraid my waterfall bottom is too high and/or too narrow to allow the upper pond to drain sufficiently into the lower.
I am not happy about this but I am going to have to undo my waterfall stones.
Any suggestions on the best/easiest way to get the mortared stone off so I can lower the falls bottom and make the falls a little wider?
I left a good distance between the two levels of the ponds and the liner for the top completely wrapped over the bottom (boy was it fun to reach in between and try to lower the falls in the first place!)
I guess a sledge hammer is the only way to go?

 

[capewind]

I cant help with the problems, but wanted to say it does look beautiful.

 

[lachancesare]

Thanks. I can't hammer a nail but working with stone is a lot of fun and does not demand the uniformity of brick and wood.
Water, on the other hand, demands to be level...and that is what I failed to pay attention to this time with the upper falls....lol

 

[sissy]

are you saying you did not make it wide enough or it is not level to allow for proper drain to the lower pond

 

[DrCase]

Its real dusty , but can you get a grinder with a diamond blade in their to cut it down. it wont take long

 

[capewind]

Thanks. I can't hammer a nail but working with stone is a lot of fun and does not demand the uniformity of brick and wood.
Water, on the other hand, demands to be level...and that is what I failed to pay attention to this time with the upper falls....lol

Well at least you enjoyed doing it, and you are laughing at your error. Someone here will help you find a solution.

and by the way, I just realized you are new to the group .... WELCOME!

 

[Waterbug]

I've busted up a lot of mortared rock. Isn't near as difficult as it seems. No sledgehammer. That would only be OK if you wanted to demolish everything.

Mortar and concrete break up due to vibration, not force exactly. Yes force is needed to create the vibration, more force = more vibration, but it isn't like breaking steel. A jackhammer for example works via vibration.

The best tool imo is a cold chisel and a regular hammer. Cold chisels come in many shapes, I think a bolster chisel shape is a good general purpose shape. You want to tap the chisel many times quickly rather than winding up and hitting as hard as you can. You'll see a bunch of chisels with big plastic tops to "protect your hand" but these aren't needed by people who know tapping is how these should be used.

Tap on the mortar joints if you want to save the rocks. Otherwise you can do the same tap, tap, tap to the rocks and break them up.

It takes a little practice but pretty quickly you'll be able to hear a difference in the tap sounds to more of thud sound as the cracking starts, long before you will see the crack. What you want to do is move around trying maybe 3 or 4 taps in each spot looking for duller sounds and give those spots more taps, but still moving around.

For example, when breaking a rock to tap a line across where you want the break. Then tap that same line again, and again. Called sending a "message" thru the rock. It means the breaking is happening deep inside the rock, not on the surface. And that's true for mortar too. It's limited control. It will still break at a weak point, you're just trying to exploit more localized weak points by lots of smaller taps.

If you hit too hard you send a "message" much further than you might want, into areas you don't want broken up.

You should be able to remove just a few rocks and re-mortar to get what you're after.

You can use a small sledgehammer, more accurately called a "hand drilling hammer" but many people say "hand sledgehammer" or just "sledgehammer". These are about 3 lbs and 10-12" long. They're cute. IMO these are for more experienced people who want to break thicker rocks and concrete. Overkill for mortar imo and you'll likely tire fast. A regular hammer is much easier and just as effective.

If you happen to have an air compressor you can buy an impact hammer for about $10 that works great...maybe too great. For a person new to this, and wants a limited area removed, I think a cold chisel and hammer is still better. You have more control. After you get a feel for how material breaks up then an impact hammer is good. The impact hammer works exactly the same, lots of small hits rather than big hits.

 

[lachancesare]

the waterfall is level and drains but not fast enough. The upper pond overfills and water is lost in a couple of areas around the edge. Had I made the fall lower,it might have been ok but as is, I am going to have to undo the fall. If it is not too hard to make it wider, I'll try that but I suspect I am also going to have to make it lower.

 

[lachancesare]

to Waterbug:
Thanks so much for the advice. This is exactly what I was hoping to find in the way of advicec. I do have a chisel about 2" wide I bought to use when I was disassembling a stone circle that had been put up around the tree I removed to put the pond in (that in itself is another long story but for another time!...lol) I also have one of the small sledge like wood splitter I used during camping that will work but I am going to try your suggestion to just use a hammer.)
I sure hope that I can just widen the falls and not have to completely disassemble it but I'll make that decision this weekend when I begin trying to remove stone (I want to save them)
Thanks so much for your quick reply. I will let you know how it goes and try to remember to take photos of the process!..
mikef

 

[sissy]

you have work ahead f you .Do you have to mortar them together when you put them back or will the just dry stack .I was not sure you had a liner under all that .I know the spray foam for windows and doors work and you can pull it apart easy .It might show yellow at first but gunk covers it after a short while and if you use it sparingly it does not show .I used it

 

[addy1]

I used spray foam and pl roofing goop worked great for my stream and waterfalls, held the rocks together, directed water flow, But did have a liner under the rocks. .

 

[lachancesare]

Thanks for all the good advice about my needed repairs. I intend to remove the side rocks on the fall and see if I can widen it enough to make it drain sufficiently. BUT...I will also see how difficult it is going to be to remove the bottom flat rock itself and put in a narrower one to lower the fall height.
I do use foam and it works very effectively around the rocks....but the fall is simply too narrow to allow the upper pond to drain enough and backs up the water until it leaves from around the lower spots of the edge.
I will take pics and share my results with you all. Thanks again for all the advice! Wish I'd come here earlier before I did the waterfall!...lol

 

[Waterbug]

Foam can be much more difficult to remove.

 

[sissy]

I used the soy based one and just a good yank and it broke free .The low expanding one is the best .I guess if you bought the other can it may be harder but never used the other kind except for larger cracks where wires ran through the foundation of my house and the contractor used that .

 

[lachancesare]

• I had used the foam to try to patch the leak under the falls rock but realized after doing it I just backed the water up on the upper pond and moved the leak to the edge. (I have removed much of the foam. where i sprayed it between two liners it comes off relatively easy. I did not use foam to fill between rocks, though I plan on that on my hill cascade rocks on the sides of the cascade (that job is only about 2/3 done and I already had undone it once to remove a stone that did not match the rest).
• I will take photos of my work this weekend and share here.
• Cannot wait to get started!