Unwell fish, what am I doing wrong?

[NewPondWhoDis]

Hello!
I’ve read a bit around and am trying to absorb all of your knowledge, but I thought maybe I would make my own post, and see if I can get some specific advice!

I’ve talked to a few different “experts” but I still feel like I don’t know what’s going on.

some info about the pond:

I estimate it to be around 3600 gallons. It’s irregular, and 40 inches deep in some places and 36 in others.
My testing kit says
pH ≈7.8
Ammonia- 0
Nitrite-0
Phosphate .25
Gh-60
Kh-80

I’ll try to summarize my situation (I just finished typing this, and it’s long, so sorry if anyone makes it We built a new pond this spring, and added goldfish a little earlier than planned. Someone I knew bought a house with a pond and needed to fill it in immediately as it was a risk to their toddlers. The pond was essentially 80% sludge and 20% water. They thought there were 10 fish but it was actually 17. Brought them all home and put them in before the waterfall filter was completely done. Always ran a big aerator since there was no waterfall for a while.

fish were fine and seemed happy to be able to see.

At some point, I put a hole in my liner with a rock, and had to drain it. I saved as much water as possible, and the fish.

I refilled the pond, put the fish back. All seemed fine. After a week or so, they were spawning like crazy though, really ramming into the rocks and stuff. It was a little concerning how intense they were being, but I figured that’s just what they do. I did lose a goldfish or two from the spawning, I believe.

after about a month, maybe more, I added 3 shubunkins.

after another month, I added 3 koi. This was going to be the last of the fish I added. There are also tadpoles.

about 10 days after adding the koi, who were probably from the most knowledgeable source, I noticed that one of the fish had cloudy eyes. I started treating with Melafix, and after two days of that, I added Pimafix. I noticed some Fungus before starting the pimafix.

I used both together for a few days, but ended up not giving both the full 7 days because I a) accidentally ordered the aquarium stuff instead of the pond stuff and the whole 64oz was just one dose, instead of the 2.5 doses it should have been and b) I wasn’t really seeing any improvement. In fact, I started losing a fish or two a day. And, sadly, 8 in one day (woke up to 6 dead, plus 2 more later that day.

oh! I also tried to treat one with pond salt, in the higher concentration, but it like rolled over on its side almost instantly! I put him back in the pond immediately and he did recover from that. I ended up just putting the salt in the water. It’s a lower concentration than recommended, but I figure it’s better than nothing.

the pond place sold me some potassium Permanganate and I used that a couple of days ago. It only stayed pink around 5.5 hours

So now I am down to 4 goldfish and 1 shubunkin, although I don’t remember ever scooping the koi out?

none of them are fuzzy, but two are missing scales, And some white on the tips of the fins. the one still looks blind and has some black on the tips of her tail and fins (I read that that means it’s healing?) and all of them look like they just have no zest for life.

maybe they are depressed that all of their friends are dead? I feel terrible that I murdered my fish. I legitimately love them all, and would do anything to take care of them.

oh! I just remembered that one thing I wonder about, is that I have a float valve in my skimmer because my waterfall is very splashy and I am afraid of the pond running too low. I do add additional stress coat in, to help with any tap water that goes in. Is the fact that I am adding the stress coat to the pond itself instead of to the water before I add it?

also, my ph was a bit low before, so I added oyster shell after reading this forum, that brought it up to the 7.8ish it is now. Could the ph swing have been bad for them?

Here is a picture of one with missing scales

Thank you again to anyone who got through all of this.

ps. I don’t know why it keeps rotating my pic. Ugh

 

[poconojoe]

Give us some details on your filtration.
If your tap water is treated, you'll need to get some dechlorinizer.
What kind of test kit do you have? The liquid type is the most accurate. The one with test strips is notoriously inaccurate.
You are running an aerator, so that's good because low oxygen can be bad.
I never add anything but dechlorinizer. Not even salt. Nothing. Period. Others might have different opinions on that.
If you have a sick fish, it's best to separate it into a hospital container for treatment.
When it comes to Ph, the numbers aren't as bad as quick fluctuations. Swings in Ph can be stressful for the fish.
Large concentrations of ammonia are bad.

 

[j.w]

@NewPondWhoDis

 

[Tula]

I'm sorry for your troubles and loss of fish

For now, I would concentrate on your water quality, aeration and filtration. Do not add anymore fish, I personally would not add any new medications until you know more about what happened.

Although your PH of 7.6 is fine, your KH is low. You mentioned you buffered the water to raise the PH, when was this is relation to your fish loss?

 

[NewPondWhoDis]

Thank you! I use the API master test kit, but I also have some dip strip things because I wanted to know the GH and KH.

I only added the other stuff because I was trying to help my fish, and read that salt was good for the issues they were having..

I guess I will link to the main kit that I bought, hopefully that helps explain the filtration.

Never mind, I think the link is triggering a need for approval. I’ll just copy the description of the filters.

• Savio LivingPonds Waterfall Filter: w/ Springflo Bio Filter Media gives you professional results instantly. Create a dynamic waterfall with a 22" weir. This waterfall filter operates nearly 3 times more effectively than square filters. Includes bottom drains to easily clean out debris.
• Savio Standard Skimmerfilter w/ 16" Weir Assembly: The best all-in-one filtration system in one easy-to-install unit. The Skimmerfilter protects your pump, reduces maintenance, and gives you more time to enjoy your pond.
• Savio UVinex 50-Watt UV System: UV lights emit germicidal ultraviolet light resulting in clear water.
• Patriot 2.1 CFM Aeration Kit

The stress coat stuff I add also has dechlorinator!

Also, I thought about separating out the sick fish, but I was worried that I wouldn’t know who all was sick, I was having a bit of an algae bloom and I couldn’t see them all. Plus, it seemed like once I saw the cloudy eye, I was finding something new every few hours.

thank you again!

 

[NewPondWhoDis]

Hi Tula, thank you for your condolences. I feel so terrible.
I don’t want to add any other fish until I have this under control, although I did get a few feeder goldfish to put in a quarantine tank for a month or so, while I see what’s going on.

I wish I had quarantined before.

Do you think a waterfall is enough aeration?
the waterfall I have has about a 3 foot drop but it hits some rocks and splashes into the water. I could move the rocks and let it hit the water directly if that is better for aeration.

They don’t gulp for air at the top, but a couple of them do tend to hang out at the top, with their faces in the water.

The aerator I have is so intense, it ready makes it hard to see the pond, so I would like to not have it on all the time if it wasn’t necessary.

 

[NewPondWhoDis]

Tula, sorry, I got distracted and didn’t answer all of your questions.

I added the oyster shell after I noticed them looking off. But before they started dying.

Oddly, the cloudy eye one is one of the few still alive.

Do you have any recommendations on how to fix the kh? After things calm down, obviously.

 

[poconojoe]

You can buy really cheap little valves to slow down the air from your aerator and (or) use a tee fitting and send the air to two or more air stones. That is what I have. I bought a cheap kit from Amazon that had several little chrome tees and valves. Now I can regulate each of my air stones separately.

 

[NewPondWhoDis]

Poconojoe, thank you!!!

I think you just set a lightbulb off in my head, I think I actually have valves that came with the aerator! I just didn’t bother to install them .

I’ll do that tomorrow!

 

[IPA]

I am sorry to hear about your fish. Are you using liquid drop rest kits? Test the water a couple times a day. Water temperature should also be monitored. Because Ammonia and nitrite are 0, ph is normal, KH a little low but nothing serious, is it possible the water was contaminated with something? Check the expiration date on the dechlorinator you are using.

If you are adding the dechlorinator to the pond you have to add enough to treat the entire pond, not just the water you are adding.

Fungus, bacteria and parasites are present in most fish that we keep, keeping the water health keeps the fish healthy so while something could have been introduced by adding new fish the losses you experienced would be unusual.
Are you in FL or another state that has Cane Toads? If you suspect poison or contamination I think water changes would be required. I wouldn’t add more salt to the pond when you do water changes. Is it recommend to do water changes after potassium Permanganate or the other medications you used to treat?

 

[WaterGardener]

KH is easily raised with baking soda. To me, a level of 100 ppm KH is good, but I keep mine around 200, so there is a large range that is fine for the fish and the pond. The KH does get used up by the nitrogen cycle which is continuous, so the KH level need to be monitored and adjusted whenever it starts to fall.

And yes, a pH crash can kill your fish and the bacteria in your filters. I don't know if that is what happened to your fish, but the KH at those levels above will keep your pH stable. Those strips are not accurate, so it would be better if you had the liquid test for KH. You will probably need to order that online since most pet stores, at least in my area, don't normally carry those.

In my opinion, the best medicine is good water. Please stop adding things to the water, except a dechlorniator if you need it, until you know what it is you are treating for and you get your water healthy.

Sorry for your troubles.

 

[Tula]

The possibility of a PH crash, mentioned by @WaterGardener , and it's relationship to KH is what prompted me to ask about the timing of when you buffered the water due to low PH.

@mrsclem has the Savio Living Pond waterfalls, so perhaps she'll chime in. Again, so sorry for all you're going through.

 

[IPA]

I did some research and I am wrong regrading dechlorinator: you do not need to add the amount for the pond volume but simply the amount of water being added.

 

[NewPondWhoDis]

Thank you for checking, IPA, I was thinking that maybe that was what was throwing things off, because I do only add the amount necessary for yeah water I am adding!

I do use the liquid test kit, except for the GH and KH...that’s a dip test thing.

I’ll get baking soda, and try to raise the KH.

Thank you so much!

 

[Mmathis]

Hello and welcome! I am so sorry to hear about your fish — I know you feel like a terrible fish-mommy. I know I mourned (and still do) for every fish I lost. But you have come to a good place here, and you have a desire and willingness to learn.

I won’t comment on your pond, because it looks like you are getting a lot of advice. But one thing to keep in mind that fish-keeping is not an exact science...as long as you use science to figure out what’s going on, rather than people who will tell you “that this is how you do it because I’ve always done it this way.” Every single pond is different and what works for one may or may not work for another.

I do want to ask what kind of liner you used (if it hasn’t already been covered). I was bothered to hear that it was torn by a rock.