Valve layout & logic ?

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Putting my thoughts to what pipe & valves I need to include for my pond.

My system plan is basic ... a pump feeding into combined filter & UVC to a waterfall outlet.

I need to allow for 3 things ... normal running, Backwash of filter & running to a
drain

The simplest I can come up with is using one 3 port port and 3 stopcocks :->


pumpvalves.jpg



The logic I have is as follows, if there is a simpler way .. please advise
Table3.jpg
 
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Ponds can be built any way you like. What is it you want checked?

Drain means like to drain the pond and not a bottom drain? If yes, a pond should never be drained imo.

What model combined filter & UVC?

If you're looking to use fewer valves, or cheaper valves, then yes that would be possible I assume. Have to know the filter model and also what you're trying to accomplish.
 
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Drain means to physical drain to get rid of excess water ...i.e. When it rains.
Didn't mention pump & filter as they don't impact the valve arrangement.
They are a simple pump water in, water out ....no valves.
Filter is a combined filter & UVC, again no valves or controls.

FYI they are Hozelock Aquaforce 4000 pump and Ecoclear 5500 fitter unit
 
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Pretty sure you're not going to like any of this but you did ask for advice.

The Ecoclear 5500 contains sponges. Sponges cannot be cleaned by back washing imo. I know the manufacturer says they can be back washed to extend the time between cleanings, and it is true, but that might mean back washing daily and the sponges still have to be removed and cleaned by hand say weekly rather than every 2-3 days. This assume the filter is actually cleaning the pond which I don't think it can since there's no way to move crap to the filter.

If your filter had been say a bead filter, then back washing would be important and effective. But these also had to be back washed often and because of that fell out of favor years ago by serious pond keepers. To me, knowing the filter is a requirement for pumping layout.

The best way to get rid of excess water is with an overflow pipe. Simple and automatic. No pump or valves required.

That reduces the number of valves you'd need to one between the pump and filter because unfortunately they didn't put a flow control on the filter. Flow control is often needed to reduce flow thru the UV in order to clear dense algae blooms.

If you want the back washing you can replace the dual port with a much cheaper ball valve.

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/gallery/image/2213-valves/



If you still want to pump water out of the pond you can add another ball valve at the waterfall to form a Y or right after the pump and before the first tee. Two ball valves are a little cheaper than a 3 port.
 
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I can't see how to easily put in an overflow, unless its pumped, pond is at ground level, any automatic overflow would need out to drain by gravity ....it can't do that as drain would need to be uphill? Or am I misunderstanding?
 

taherrmann4

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Is there no slope away from your pond at all? You don't need very much at all in order to make an overflow spot. Like WB said by doing it this way would make it automatic, what happens if it rains a lot and you are not home?
 

taherrmann4

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Are you still in the construction phase of your pond? So the surrounding areas drain toward your pond since it is sitting at or below ground level? Not sure if this is an established pond or not but I would think about making it sit higher out of the ground just a bit and create a berm around the edge of your pond.

Getting back to your original question. Looks like it will work. I would use these type of wyes or something similar instead of traditional T's.

611942035625sm.jpg
 

DrCase

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If your pond edge is level with the ground it wont be long and your going to wish you built it up higher.
 
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Is there no slope away from your pond at all? You don't need very much at all in order to make an overflow spot. Like WB said by doing it this way would make it automatic, what happens if it rains a lot and you are not home?

The pond is at lowest point .. any overflow unless pumped won't work as water needs to go uphill.

Maybe there is a neat way of using a float operated overflow valve ... the bilge pump on my boat works that way.
 
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Are you still in the construction phase of your pond? So the surrounding areas drain toward your pond since it is sitting at or below ground level? Not sure if this is an established pond or not but I would think about making it sit higher out of the ground just a bit and create a berm around the edge of your pond.

At the moment it's a tiered hole dug in the ground .. The finished edge detail will be about 2" above ground level ...

Effectively the land is flat. .... even if I did build the pond up by a more few inches there is nowhere to let water overflow to ... nearest surface water drain is 60' away ...
My plan was to build in a 1" pipe .. just below ground level that could take pumped waste from pond when set to 'drain'
 
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You're right. When the pond level is the lowest spot an overflow isn't going to work. Stuff washing into this type of pond is an issue but can normally be dealt with easily using berms. A bigger problem is floating liner. Don't know if you've heard of this, it isn't super common, but when it does happen it's a real problem. The basic problem is when it rains the pond over flows, gets behind the liner, can't seep into the soil fast enough and pushes the liner up which overflows the pond more. Pretty soon you have very little water left in the pond and it sure doesn't look too good.

Building up the sides is the only solution if there's enough extra liner. I've never heard of installing a sump pump inside a pond but that could work as long as the power doesn't go out. Kind of expensive and not too attractive imo.
 
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Floating liner ... could be an issue.
I dug the hole out with machine, it rained 2 days later and as we are had wetest June & July in history (officially) the pond is not draining to allow me to get on with it.
I have pumped it out 5 times so far ... today it was 3/4 full again.

The land is not self draining ... very poor drainage.

I wonder that maybe I could create a small hopper under one edge stone, that allows water to enter when pool is 'over filling' and have a float valve operated pump in that (hence my comment about a float operated bilge pump )
Or even just have a 2" pipe 'hidden' under an edging stone sloping down to a 'created’ hopper outside of pool .. and put bilge pump in that ....

I could build up edges so pool is 6" or so above ground level, but no higher or it would not look right.

This would prevent any run in of water .. but not rain water of course. ->

externalsump.jpg
 
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I dug the hole out with machine, it rained 2 days later and as we are had wetest June & July in history (officially) the pond is not draining to allow me to get on with it.
I have pumped it out 5 times so far ... today it was 3/4 full again.
Exactly. And once you get the liner in the water pressure against the clay will pack it even tighter. Basically a clay bowl like on a potter's wheel.

I wonder that maybe I could create a small hopper under one edge stone, that allows water to enter when pool is 'over filling' and have a float valve operated pump in that (hence my comment about a float operated bilge pump )
Or even just have a 2" pipe 'hidden' under an edging stone sloping down to a 'created’ hopper outside of pool .. and put bilge pump in that ....
As long as the pump can keep up. You could do some calculations on rain fall in your area to see.

For the pipe under the perimeter stone you'd really want the pipe to be thru the liner, not just sitting on top. This would be called the over flow pipe. Normally they go thru the side underwater and then 90 up to the surface. But thru the side above the normal water line is fine too, but thru the liner.

I could build up edges so pool is 6" or so above ground level, but no higher or it would not look right. This would prevent any run in of water .. but not rain water of course.
Actually this is exactly how the floating liner issue is normally solved. If your yard is truly flat and you build up the pond edges by 6" you can install a normal overflow pipe and just let it drain into the yard. Basically what you have in your picture minus the sump pump. The entire yard, your entire neighborhood would have to be covered in 6" of water before your liner would float. Even 2" can be enough if you're precise on the build. Of course the higher you go the safer.

This can be a win win. One issue with a pond build is what to do with the soil. If you use some of it to build up 6" around the pond and slope it away maybe 10' you'll hardy notice that it's built up. Once rocks and plants are added you won't be able to tell at all.

One thing you may want to consider is a concrete collar around the edge of the pond. That keeps the edges from caving in which makes it easier for water to get behind the liner. Also it make a precise build a lot easier so you know your edge is level and whatever distance you want above grade. Then you can add the soil and slope away from that collar. The collar can be as simple as just blocks, or a step up and use bond beam blocks with rebar and filled with concrete, or top grade poured concrete with rebar. I've just used plain block many time and it works very well. Fill the blocks with clay and tamp down.
 

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