Very injured goldie!

Discussion in 'Illness and Disease' started by myswtsins, Sep 24, 2016.

  1. myswtsins

    myswtsins

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    Came home last night to a big goldfish stuck on some rocks, under the lip of my fake rock skimmer cover and less than half covered in water. I put her right into the skimmer box, lowered the flow some and let her catch her breath. She did recover her breath and was able to keep herself straight up, moving around a little. It was late so I moved her into a floating basket I made out it in the middle of the main pond overnight figuring it is best not to move her into a hospital tank at that time, just more stress. This morning I expected the worst but she appears to be acting a little better. She has a lot of damage, about 20-30% of her scales are gone and the rest of her is quite beat up with some torn fins. My instinct is to now move her and a bunch of her pond water (which is good clean water) into a QT tank inside where I can treat and feed her directly and add any meds needed. This seem like the right move at this time? The only tank I can setup right now is a 30g (36x12 style), she is about 9-10" will this be ok?
     
    myswtsins, Sep 24, 2016
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  2. myswtsins

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Does the fish have any open wounds? If not I would leave it in the pond where it will be less stressful. The fish will recover on its own.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Sep 24, 2016
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  3. myswtsins

    myswtsins

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    I'd say no, she doesn't have any open wounds. Where the scales are missing is fleshy but not bloody or dug out. She is missing more scales than I realized. I tried to get some decent pictures without having to touch her or take her outta the water (I've used a bucket to transfer her so she always stayed in the water). I included a picture of the floating basket, it is about 2ft by 1ft by 1ft. She was actually swimming around the tote quite a bit, making it harder to take pictures of course. I put a little algae in the floating basket for comfort and food and it looks like shes been eating it by the big poo in the pictures, could be from yesterday's eating but with as skinny as she got from all that straining I doubt she had anything left in her system. You can see she has kinda a saggy stomach now which she certainly never had before.

    Edit: BTW the red mark at the base of her tail is a coloration mark not blood but the red marks on her tail fin is blood not coloration. Oh and it's suddenly cold here today. Yesterday it was nearly 90 today it's barely 60. Another reason I was concerned about leaving her in the basket outside.
     

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    myswtsins, Sep 24, 2016
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  4. myswtsins

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    You can keep it is the floating basket for a few days just for better observation, but the fish does not appear to have any open wounds and should heal nicely without any treatments. The fins and scales will regenerate.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Sep 24, 2016
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  5. myswtsins

    Faebinder

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    Agree with Meyer. Pictures look good without open wounds. Good chance of recovery.
     
    Faebinder, Sep 24, 2016
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  6. myswtsins

    myswtsins

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    Thank you very much! I have had other fish recovery IN pond but their scale loss was MUCH lower (breeding injuries). I currently have a VERY low salt level in the pond. Should I increase it? Do a water change? Or do nothing to keep it all exactly like what she is used to? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrates and phosphates are 0, always, lots of plants.
     
    myswtsins, Sep 24, 2016
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  7. myswtsins

    Faebinder

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    Nope, add nothing, change nothing.... dont stress the fish... It will take a week or so for the fish to normalize. Think of it as someone who got a hair patch pulled off their head, it wont be long to recover.
     
    Faebinder, Sep 24, 2016
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  8. myswtsins

    myswtsins

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    Done! Thanks. :)
     
    myswtsins, Sep 24, 2016
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  9. myswtsins

    peter hillman Let me think for minute....

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    Poor thing looks like it's been thru the wringer, also looks like it'll be fine.
     
    peter hillman, Sep 24, 2016
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  10. myswtsins

    Dave 54

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    @myswtsins I've Just given your goldfish a once over though a tad battered it should be ok and I concur with Meyer on this, it also makes good sense that the fish stays in the pond simply because of outsides temperatures dropping as they are starting to do now .
    [Take the fish out and you have the fiddly job of matching pond and indoors temperastures exactly spot on upon release of the goldfish into the pond, or start to risk thermal stress in the fish and vica versa if taking it from the pond...]
    Just watch out for any fungal growths on the damaged areas of its flanks tail etc and if you see any signs of it appearing on your fish treat it acpordingly .
    Also try and find out the reason why this fish ended up where it did and try and rectify it so it doesnt happen again

    Dave
     
    Dave 54, Sep 25, 2016
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  11. myswtsins

    myswtsins

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    Thanks for the additional replies.

    We have major fungus, her entire right side is covered almost overnight. She is acting much better though. So at this point I need to.... move her to a hospital tank? and use salt (have it), methylene blue, malacite green or potassium permanganate (have it)? I think I'd like to start with salt normally but I don't know if the fact that she is 50% covered would deem I kick it up a notch off the bat. I can use a slightly opaque tote if that would make her feel more comfortable than a clear aquarium. In nearly 10 years of fish keeping I've never had to medicate any fish. :(
     
    myswtsins, Sep 27, 2016
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  12. myswtsins

    myswtsins

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    Some further reading says PP is more toxic at a higher pH, mine is over 8. So I think I should skip that one. If I do salt do you guys prefer strong quick baths or slow increase to high constant/maintained levels approach? With baths I figure I could leave her out in the pond basket but there is a 80% chance of rain for the next week, making it hard to work out there of course but more importantly it would be changing her water chemistry constantly, slowly but constantly.

    I know the issue of temp adjusting from moving her in now and out later, matching the pond was brought up. Right now the weather is cool, about 70 for the next couple of weeks. I do keep my windows open whenever possible making my room similar to outside temps. My room is usually about 72-74 so I think I can minimize that problem.

    Edit: Oh, I have a little aquarium salt, water softener salt and Epsom salt. I had a huge thing of pond salt but for the life of me I cannot find it!
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
    myswtsins, Sep 27, 2016
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  13. myswtsins

    Dave 54

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    You should have her out and remove the fungus its quite easy to do using Oil of cloves as an anethetic dab any areas with malachite and use propolis spray available either onlinefrom a koi dealership or any health food range , then purchase an anti bacterial treatment and treat the pond with it pplease read articles first before atempting to Anethatize :-

    https://www.gardenpondforum.com/articles/the-various-stages-of-anaesthetics.5/

    Article about propolis its magic properties :-

    https://www.gardenpondforum.com/articles/propolis.25/

    Treating your fish useful tips for you to use :-

    https://www.gardenpondforum.com/articles/useful-tips-for-treating-your-fish.38/

    Hope this helps

    Dave
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
    Dave 54, Sep 28, 2016
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  14. myswtsins

    myswtsins

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    Wow, it's surprising how we went from just leave the fish alone to needing to do all that stuff! Guess you think it is behind salt?
    Meaning put her into a hospital tank?

    Remove the fungus as in do the steps you are saying not to physically remove it right? So, give her a clove oil bath then apply non diluted malachite green directly onto her entire side (and anywhere there is fungus), immediately spray her with propolis (never even heard of that before) and then put her back into the bath, bring her around and put her into the hospital tank or back into the pond? Do I repeat this treatment everyday or anything?

    Why? This just seems outta place. Something like melafix ok?

    All that seems extreme and has me a little nervous so any further details would be great, thanks!
     
    myswtsins, Sep 28, 2016
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  15. myswtsins

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Won't this adversely affect the nitrifying bacteria? A general bactericide is not specie specific.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Sep 28, 2016
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  16. myswtsins

    Tula

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    I'm not an expert, so have hesitated to post anything; however, with the fish being covered in fungus, I believe you should remove the fish from the pond for treatment. I'll leave the type of treatment to the experts.
     
    Tula, Sep 28, 2016
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  17. myswtsins

    myswtsins

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    I brought her in, put her in the 30g and started adding some salt, since that's all I have ATM. Looking into everything else! More opinions and/or details welcomed!
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
    myswtsins, Sep 28, 2016
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  18. myswtsins

    myswtsins

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    I am slowing increasing the salt levels with aquarium salt (till it runs out). How much should I work up to? Tbl per gallon or I do have a float hydrometer. I also found a small bottle of pimafix which I think it enough to do a full 7 day treatment. I doubt the pimafix would work completely on it's own but maybe with the salt it could do the trick?
     
    myswtsins, Sep 28, 2016
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  19. myswtsins

    Tula

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    I've copied and pasted this information from koiphen.com, a site devoted primarily to koi, but also has forums for gold fish and turtles. This information can be found under their thread "Koi Health, A comprehensive Discussion".

    SAP Treatment:

    At one time it was generally agreed that Malachite Green was by far the most effective treatment. However, a treatment for topical bacterial ulcer disease has shown a very serious advantage. Tricide Neo, produced for dips and sprays has now been used for topical swabbing when simply mixed with the slime of the fish. It is important to continue to work this into and under the scales and flesh of the fish for about 5 minutes. Then simply wipe off and revive the fish. The results have been extremely good. It remains to be seen if this will become a staple in the medicine cabinet for SAP but it definitely has proven, in the short term, that it works.

    The following is older information but Gentian Violet still is an important tool in the medicine cabinet.

    Gentian Violet may also be used as it is antifungal. GV is available over the counter at most pharmacies. It is very inexpensive and easily applied without the mess of mixing or the dangers of Malachite Green.

    Columnaris: Mouth Fungus; Fin Rot, Cottonmouth Disease:
    This is not a fungus or a mold. This is a bacterial infection-gram negative. The problem is that it can somewhat resemble SAP. Symptoms include grayish white spot on the head, gills or body sometimes surrounded by a reddish tinge. It can be topically treated with Iodine and then given antibiotic injections per the charts listed in that section. I would, however, strongly suggest the use of Tricide Neo as the topical of choice when used as a paste mixed with either slime coat, or even better, Silvadene.
     
    Tula, Sep 28, 2016
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  20. myswtsins

    myswtsins

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    Thanks Tula!

    Now that she is inside and adjusted I took a good look at her. Under the fungus is very red, mostly near her tail where she had the deepest damage. Would that indicate an infection? I have only added salt to the tank so far, no pimafix yet. She really is acting good though, active and even tried to swim away from me when I got her out of the floating basket. I want to feed her. I have anti-bacterial food I'd like to give her. Any reason I shouldn't?
     
    myswtsins, Sep 28, 2016
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