We have a "Hole"... the rest... we need Help!

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With such a warm welcome in the Intro section... I know I have come to the right spot for help! Starting better than 3 years ago, I built a screened Gazebo at the bottom of a garnite gully with a promise to my wife I would one day dam the bottom and make it a goldfish pond with a waterfalls and a stream. I get this done and she will tear 39 pages out of my HoneyDo! novel and we can then enjoy it with a life once again!

Having already made every mistake possible on a prior pond project, I would rather forego doing same again and this is where I turn to the experts that have been here before and try to flatten out my learning curve a bit! Assume I know Nothing as that would be quite accurate, with a hole in place I need all the rest that turns it into a pond. Suggestions, debates, brand names and sizes... I need it all!

What we have here is a semi above ground "hole" built on a granite rock. Even with all the mistakes I made on my first attempt years ago, we enjoyed it so much I had to try again. I calculate this "rock" the pond is built on extends down some 30-40 feet at minimum. This should result in enough heat pump transfer that the rebared and shotcreted pond should remain liquid through the winter..... I say this with a great deal of Hope behind the statement. If it works I will take credit for it... if not I will come up with some lame excuse why it didnt work. Being MN natives, moving out here 20 years ago, the winters here are actually civilized and we have a great deal of sun. If I need to plumb this through a small solar panel, I can do that later if its required.

The layout, in all its glory... and omissions. Rough calculations show it about 7000 gallons in size with the deepest part being abot 4 feet deep, extending up the hill to a walkout level. A top holding area will split the pumped water into a waterfalls on one side and a small stream leading down to a shallow area on the other. I did think to have a 2" ID drain put in the low spot of the structure but aside from that..... nothing. The young guys that shot the concrete moved fater than this old cuss and I did not have time to form in a skimmer.

I will post up some photos of what we have and then need everyone to make suggestions RE Pumps, filters, slimmer, concrete sealer.... everything that turns this from a hole into a pond. This week Kris will be sponge staining the dyed concrete so it blends into the Moss Rock that surrounds it. I will be stacking rocks on the outside of the walls so those too blend away and it has a more natural look from afar. I have read all I can and now its time for me to lay out my mental gameplan and have folks that know what they are doing make suggestions.

08 gentle slope streambed
12 steeper side that will get the multiteer waterfall
13 area under the walkway that would make the shortest plumbing run for the stream/waterfalls, for one pump
17 lay of the land we are dealing with and blasted heavy rocks waiting to be stacked to hide a wall
18 top area to receive the pumped water and then split between the stream on this sire and the falls on the other
27 with the 2" drain directly below, I extended the deck out so a skimmer affair would hide under the deck and could be spliced into the drain, both going to the filter/pump combination..... no idea if that will work
 

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sissy

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I was just noticing how rough the shotcrete looks in these pics and guessing it was not troweled down .I do know in seeing a pool done at a neighbors they put a finish plaster coat on after that they trowel perfectly smooth ..If you google it or go on you tube there are video's of ponds and pools done this way .I watched several of them and seems the finish coat is not cheap or easy to do .I saw also there was one who did a pond with an island in the middle and they used a black rubber coating but seems that was not cheap ,but they just seemed to brush it on but took several coats of it and a lot of men .
 
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I was just noticing how rough the shotcrete looks in these pics and guessing it was not troweled down .I do know in seeing a pool done at a neighbors they put a finish plaster coat on after that they trowel perfectly smooth ..If you google it or go on you tube there are video's of ponds and pools done this way .I watched several of them and seems the finish coat is not cheap or easy to do .I saw also there was one who did a pond with an island in the middle and they used a black rubber coating but seems that was not cheap ,but they just seemed to brush it on but took several coats of it and a lot of men .

PLEASE.... not more concrete.... I have had enough to last a lifetime! I just was about to post a follow up discussing just this topic. If we need to plaster it... so be it but I would love to work around that if at all possible. Yes, it is rough but I dont expect a clean bottom and it will be cleaner than wading in the stream down the road. If keeping it clean is the only issue... rough it will stay.
 
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Sissy was kind enough to make the suggestion of multiple pumps rather than one big atom smasher. I have read the water should be completely circulated once an hour and in other areas once every two. The two pump idea is far more appealing as I can turn the stream and falls on when we are sitting out there but off when not. The filter pump will run 24/7 but will that provide enough oxygen for the goldfish and plants? Being as I only have one bottom drain, should I tee this and pull from both the shallow side as well as the deep end? Can one of those legs be once again Tee'd up to a skimmer or is that better dealt with in other ways? Size and design of DIY Bio filters like I have read about here? Pump sizes for each application? Plumbing layout? I can build all of the filters into the area under the gazebo as the floor height varies from 4 ft on the uphill side to 12 ft on the downhill side. So long as the pump and such are quite, we have a great out of sight, gravity fed area to handle that.

As we are located in the high desert, I need to make this as water saving as possible, water here is a commodity and rain is sparse. Given the fires we have dealt with this spring, that closed to within a few miles of us, having 7000 gallons of "pretty" next to the house will be a warm and fuzzy feeling if we need to draw from it for a wildfire.
I have spoken with dozens of experts RE concrete sealer and each has the "Best Available"... with what ever they stock being the best. After speaking with the CEO of Stone Technologies, an incredibly helpful person, I am leaning that direction using their X2 followed by their X3 to seal out the water and the leaching of lime and lye. Unless someone has a better proven method (NO,Please dont say to plaster this, I have seen enough concrete Anything to last a lifetime!)... I will order that up this weekend so we can get this progressing. That leads me to making plumbing.... the one thing that has me frustrated beyond words.... suggestions?
 

sissy

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They say if it is not sealed it will crack and erode on there and with moving water I wonder if it could happen faster .i am not sure what kind of concrete as it was talking psi and i do know it means pounds per square inch .I guess you could check on line
 

sissy

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Just like pond supplies and pumps they all claim to have the best.I guess word of mouth and research is the best .I look at warrantees on products i buy and always buy extended and also look for local places as with pumps if you have a problem you will need to ship it back to them and that is a hassle .You can google and you may find some thing there local .My neighbor has had to ship a pump back to the manufacturer 3 times and borrows an extra pump I have every time .What a hassle and company keeps repairing it and sending it back and this time she demanded a new pump .
 
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They say if it is not sealed it will crack and erode on there and with moving water I wonder if it could happen faster .i am not sure what kind of concrete as it was talking psi and i do know it means pounds per square inch .I guess you could check on line

I am fightful you are right, this is one area of concern of mine. The guys doing the shotcrete were understaffed during the pour and by the time the structure was done, it was beyond troweling. The owner of ST didnt seem concerned with having the two step sealing process done but.... it isnt his loss if it fails. The concrete used was 5000PSI, the same the guys shooting it use in skateboard parks. I suspect it is quite bombproof but.... one never knows. If we should plaster it, that is what we will do..... stike that, that is what HE will do, I will sit in a lawn chair this time around and monitor the process!
 
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Just like pond supplies and pumps they all claim to have the best.I guess word of mouth and research is the best .I look at warrantees on products i buy and always buy extended and also look for local places as with pumps if you have a problem you will need to ship it back to them and that is a hassle .You can google and you may find some thing there local .My neighbor has had to ship a pump back to the manufacturer 3 times and borrows an extra pump I have every time .What a hassle and company keeps repairing it and sending it back and this time she demanded a new pump .

Completely agree. It is for that reason alone I would love to know who is happy with what. I was throwing out cheap pumps in my first pond attempt liek they were a change of cloths. That said, my pond design contributed to those failures a great deal, a mistake I would rather not make again.

I now manufacture auto parts and we own an auto repair shop. I had no choice but to build parts because in my market "Quality" is a word that no longer exists. If I can buy quality.... I had to make it! I am 100% behind buying a made in USA product and have no problem paying for a quality pice so long as that is what I get.
 

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Looks real good from here !!
I wish i had hills in my yard
 

sissy

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You can google your yellow pages koiboy in Brighten Colorado has a websight and the pond shop in Colorado springs has a websight and there are a few more .Easy to find just google colorado yellow pages
 

sissy

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gosh there are a lot of ponds in Colorado ,was looking at a pond builder there and all the great ones he has done all over the state WOW Paradise Ponds and Landscaping has some great pics
 
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You want the wild animals too

I was just on the deck staring at it, trying to make up a 'plan'. Right in the bottom of the gully, 20 feet from the pond, 2 Wild Turkey Hens and 14 youngins! I suspect when we get water in this it will become Wild Kingdom, we are living a realized dream being here. With the Cougar, Elk, Bobcat...... any water here is a draw and this will just become even more fun! Being a native flatlander from MN... we love the mountains but long for water and black dirt, neither of which we have here.

Brighton is just down the road a pice from our shop in Boulder... great suggestion, Thanks! Given the choice I will always keep my purchases local and support a local business.
 

sissy

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I was born in PA and raised in NJ and retired to VA .I had an acre of land in NJ and here i have 3 acres as i bought 3 lots one acre each 5 thousand an acre and he paid closing costs and the other house in Pittsville VA has almost 12 acres and since I live in farm country i do get wild animals and a cow visitor .The most dangerous animal we get is a bear but animal control comes and relocates them back to the mountains
















 
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I was born in PA and raised in NJ and retired to VA .I had an acre of land in NJ and here i have 3 acres as i bought 3 lots one acre each 5 thousand an acre and he paid closing costs and the other house in Pittsville VA has almost 12 acres and since I live in farm country i do get wild animals and a cow visitor .The most dangerous animal we get is a bear but animal control comes and relocates them back to the mountains

Fun stuff and beautiful!

We made a half price offer on a wing and a prayer on this property, something Far beyond our means and dreams.... and it was accepted. We got two horses for our daughters and in a very short time they learned that Boys and Cars were easier and more fun. Now the horses are used by Kris and myself to ride up into Wilderness areas and the kids are grown and gone. The rifle scabbard now just holds a flyrod and we do more napping under a shade tree than fishing when we find a quite spot. Frankly, I cant remember the last time I caught a Trout, they just laugh at me while I harass them.... and I am fine with that and will take to harassing the goldfish from a lawnchair when this is done. Our neighbor to the west, uphill side, owns a full section and just grazes cattle over the summer on it, they will be my biggest challenge to keep on the other side of the fence on their rounds past our pond area. Being the midwest dork I am, I still try to grow grass on this rock in an attempt to make our pastures green for the horses. If that doesnt have the neighbors laughing hard enough.... a pond in the desert mountains, in a dry valley, that will be the topping!

Here nothing gets relocated, you just go in doors when the mean critters are hungry. They come and go at will and we just try to find a way to tolerate one another. Its all good, we enjoy the wildlife a great deal, its why we moved here. The Turkeys are something I have never seen in the valley so this is a real treat for us!
 

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