Weird Fish:

[Marshall]

When doing research on the carp family I ran across this "weird" looking fella:
An oranda-type variegated pearlscale. And that is not a mistake as I thought the first time I saw it. Turns out that is a proper fish considered a goldfish and they all look that way lol

 

[Dave 54]

Marshallboth the Chinese and Japanese have taken some mutations and bred from them making more mutations etc etc
These fish suffer from a miriad of health problems that man has caused thu doing so.
Normally swim bladders are a big problem due to the body being sort of scrunched up , some have bubble eyes these are fluid filled bags of water that if ruptured cause ulcers that are hard to treat others lack parts namely the dorsal most of he worst afflicted should never see a pond being strictky tank fish , they would otherwise be easy pickings for preditors .
I think over the thousands of years they have been breeding in these bad mutations the number tops over 200 varieties I think.
It is also the main reason that made us decide on koi as man has left the body shape alone concentrating instead on changing their colour .

Dave

 

[Marshall]

Marshallboth the Chinese and Japanese have taken some mutations and bred from them making more mutations etc etc
These fish suffer from a miriad of health problems that man has caused thu doing so.
Normally swim bladders are a big problem due to the body being sort of scrunched up , some have bubble eyes these are fluid filled bags of water that if ruptured cause ulcers that are hard to treat others lack parts namely the dorsal most of he worst afflicted should never see a pond being strictky tank fish , they would otherwise be easy pickings for preditors .
I think over the thousands of years they have been breeding in these bad mutations the number tops over 200 varieties I think.
It is also the main reason that made us decide on koi as man has left the body shape alone concentrating instead on changing their colour .

Dave

I think the butterfly koi which in the grand scheme of the art of selective breeding is a rather recent "creation" being roughly 30 years old and in my opinion is by far the most pleasing appearance wise of any type of koi I have seen. My white koi and solid black are my two faves. The white is a true 100% butterfly but the black is a slightly hybridized being mixed but he is mostly butterfly koi in appearance.

 

[Dave 54]

No Doctor Axelrod did this with koi many moons ago but dwarfed them, you'll find that the modern day butterflies are bred with Indonesian river carp this gives them the butterfly gene

Dave

 

[Marshall]

Marshallboth the Chinese and Japanese have taken some mutations and bred from them making more mutations etc etc
These fish suffer from a miriad of health problems that man has caused thu doing so.
Normally swim bladders are a big problem due to the body being sort of scrunched up , some have bubble eyes these are fluid filled bags of water that if ruptured cause ulcers that are hard to treat others lack parts namely the dorsal most of he worst afflicted should never see a pond being strictky tank fish , they would otherwise be easy pickings for preditors .
I think over the thousands of years they have been breeding in these bad mutations the number tops over 200 varieties I think.
It is also the main reason that made us decide on koi as man has left the body shape alone concentrating instead on changing their colour .

Dave

PS: From what I have researched the butterfly were originally a feral group of koi that had ended up living in a drainage ditch in Indonesia when they were discovered and admired for the odd appearance.

 

[Dave 54]

Thats not what I heard or read Marshall they were cross bred with the Indonesian river carp specifically for the long fins we now know :-

http://fullserviceaquatics.com/koi-pond/butterfly-koi-water-dragons-of-the-pond-world/

Hope this helps but I did pick out this specific bit of information they were a basic river carp which isnt a "feral koi carp" the river carp is specific to indonesia...though there have been claims that blackwater koi first bred them this I believe to be wrong they where bred in Japan specific for those "damn Yankees"
They are recognised by the AKCA but it would be a brave BKKS member who even admits to liking them and they are not recognised by the BKKS and thus cannot unlike in the US be shown a koi shows .
I'm unsure about Europe though


Dave

 

[Marshall]

Thats not what I heard or read Marshall they were cross bred with the Indonesian river carp specifically for the long fins we now know :-

http://fullserviceaquatics.com/koi-pond/butterfly-koi-water-dragons-of-the-pond-world/

Hope this helps but I did pick out this specific bit of information they were a basic river carp which isnt a "feral koi carp" the river carp is specific to indonesia...though there have been claims that blackwater koi first bred them this I believe to be wrong they where bred in Japan specific for those "damn Yankees"
They are recognised by the AKCA but it would be a brave BKKS member who even admits to liking them and they are not recognised by the BKKS and thus cannot unlike in the US be shown a koi shows .
I'm unsure about Europe though


Dave

This is the from the company that imported them into the US and successfully bred them here.
http://www.blueridgekoi.com/the-butterfly-koi-story/

 

[Dave 54]

This is the from the company that imported them into the US and successfully bred them here.
http://www.blueridgekoi.com/the-butterfly-koi-story/

Sorry what was I thinking I meant blueridge not blackwater must be colour blind
There is claim and counter claim over these fish I wonder if @Meyer Jordan or @koiguy1969 could help solve the origins of these koi .
In Newzealand these feral koi are pest so I cant see another country make the same mistake as they did over koi .
Australia too have banned them in all but two states , not because they have turned feral but because they are inundated with common wild carp , it may well be because they have a bann on importing koi into Australia that the two states that allow them may have the only KHV free koi left in the world [perhaps in Newzeland too in their feral koi population nobody hasd bothered to test them to the best of my knowledge].
However the Austrailian koi because of this bann are much smaller than the jumbo koi that the rest of the world have and the silly sods want to introduce JHV to the wild population [if you think about it , if many of our koi have latent KHV just waiting for the right stressor to comealong and activate it then Australia may be sitting on a potential pot of gold ].
Even yours and my koi may have latent KHV it happeened to a member of our club this year and they havent added a koi in 10 years which has us all very worried because at that time we used to get our koi from a trusted dealership in Yeovil in Somerset if ithe infected fish where bought their it bodes in for the lot of us .
But I digress we'll have to look into this in far greater detail to find out the origins of these butterflys

Dave

 

[Dave 54]

However ask the right question and you get the right answer this is wikipedia's take on the origins of these butterfly koi :-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_Koi

Dave

 

[Mmathis]

I don't want to say too much about these various "weird" fish breeds, since there are a lot of people out there who have them and love them to death..... But my question is [always], WHY?

Some of them are pretty.....and some are just plain creepy -- to me, this one absolutely takes the cake.....Celestial Eye! Not a fish for the pond, obviously, or he'd have to wear sunglasses all the time!

 

[Marshall]

I don't want to say too much about these various "weird" fish breeds, since there are a lot of people out there who have them and love them to death..... But my question is [always], WHY?

Some of them are pretty.....and some are just plain creepy -- to me, this one absolutely takes the cake.....Celestial Eye! Not a fish for the pond, obviously, or he'd have to wear sunglasses all the time!

View attachment 87862

If he was in my pond he would have to wear a helmet and wet suit because I don't think I could love that face lol he is like a +++++
PS: To be fair he could just be reading his taxes too...

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I don't want to say too much about these various "weird" fish breeds, since there are a lot of people out there who have them and love them to death..... But my question is [always], WHY?

WHY, you ask? Why does the human specie tinker with anything? Because they can. Because they are arrogant!

 

[Meyer Jordan]

There is claim and counter claim over these fish I wonder if @Meyer Jordan or @koiguy1969 could help solve the origins of these koi .

I have always been under the impression that they were introduced to the U.S. by Blue Ridge. Never thought it was a subject important enough to research.

 

[Dave 54]

Yes they more than probably where Meyer but the discussin is where from originally and as too what is the genetic makeup of the fish .
Indoneasian river carp or feral koi ?

Dave

 

[Dave 54]

WHY, you ask? Why does the human specie tinker with anything? Because they can. Because they are arrogant!

In that I totally agree with you Meyer, thats why we keep koi at least mans interferance is lesser with these fish and its only the colour that has been messed about with .
We arent that keen on the long fin in the BKKS its simply not recognised and never will be .

Dave