well true or not true

Discussion in 'Garden Pond Talk' started by sissy, Feb 26, 2016.

  1. sissy

    sissy sissy

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    Good gosh how can Dr foster and smith put this on there sight .Not sure I would ever believe you could get away with these sized ponds for koi .
     

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    sissy, Feb 26, 2016
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  2. sissy

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    Well when they are fry you could!;)
     
    addy1, Feb 26, 2016
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  3. sissy

    Smaug God makes perfect. I just dug the hole

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    You can get away with it the same way yoh can get away with keeping comets in a 55 gallon tank . If filtration is sufficient and water changes are performed koi can be kept in a heck of alot smaller then what they claim. My neighbor has a 500 gallon pond with 5 koi and a half dozen comets and the koi are over 18 inches long and got that big growing up in that pond . I don't recomended it or condone it but it can be done and it can even be done healthy if the owner keeps up with maintenance.
     
    Smaug, Feb 26, 2016
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  4. sissy

    MitchM

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    I prefer to under stock a pond instead of trying to push it's capacity to the max.
    You're just inviting problems if you approach a pond by trying to cram as much fish as possible into it.
     
    MitchM, Feb 26, 2016
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  5. sissy

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    What was this chart in regard to? Filtration? Pump size?
    Their figures are correct if and only if adequate flow rate and bioconversion (biofitration) is provided.
    I do agree that a 6' x 8' pond does not provide much swimming space for 21" Koi, but it can be done.
    I have 35+? Koi 18" x 24" in about 4400 gallons. This is a higher density than Fosters and Smith are showing in that chart. I do have high flow rate and lots and lots and lots of biofiltration.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Feb 26, 2016
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  6. sissy

    sissy sissy

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    It just referred to how many fish and what size pond and what size fish you can keep .How can you keep 21 inch fish in a 6x8 pond 3 feet deep .It doesn't say anything about filter or pump .It does say 1 inch of fish per every 10 gallons .But to me a 6x8 pond would never be good for fish that size.It says well maintained pond ,to me that would need a lot of work to maintain water quality .I could not believe they post this to ponders but then they say those 21 inch fish could grow in the first year they are in there 3 to 6 inch's more .Why would they tell this to ponders and think that this will help them decide on the amount of fish in a pond .That would be a scary disaster for a ponder .I prefer under ,I have 16 fish in 5000 gallons
     
    sissy, Feb 27, 2016
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  7. sissy

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    It can be, and is, done, Sissy. The key, as I indicated in the earlier post, is adequate flow rate and sufficient biofiltration. If the Ammonia and Nitrite levels can be kept in check and the dissolved Oxygen above 4 mg/l, the fish will be fine.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Feb 27, 2016
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  8. sissy

    Smaug God makes perfect. I just dug the hole

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    Keep in mind that places like Dr's Foster and smith are in the business to sell product. When I first got into pond keeping I relied totally on what the garden centers told me. I kept koi in a 150 gallon preformed for my first 5 years doing it. I battled everything imaginable to keep my growing koi alive and sometimes lost a fish or two. At first I lost a hell of a lot more then a fish or two! Internet forums were non existent and books on the subject were just as misleading. I actually did pretty well for that 5 years and kept 8 koi alive and mostly healthy til I had the money to build my 2500 gallon. My oldest koi and comets are over 10 yrs old now. My oldest koi is only about 15 inches because his first years were stunted due to struggling water conditions. I stocked 4 Japanese strain koi the first year I built my big pond and they are already bigger then my oldest koi as well as much fatter! Forums like this one are a Godsend to struggling pond keepers who were talked into the wrong thing by garden centers and places like Dr's foster. But that said,the guidelines F and S lay down are a whole lot better then the line my local garden centers fed me!!! All we can do as experienced pond and fish keepers is help those that come our way,most of them have been mislead far worse then what the F and S website have done.
     
    Smaug, Feb 27, 2016
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  9. sissy

    sissy sissy

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    To me it sounds more like they want to sell and don't care if you fail .I had my preformed for over a year and I knew it was temporary until we finished landscaping and building the front porch .The fish were small and I had a lava rock filter and it worked pretty good but keeping the pond level was a nightmare .Every time the ground would freeze and thaw it was off level .I still have my original fish and the koi are now over 2 feet long .My koi were just cheap mutts from the koi farm at a couple of dollars a piece .That was back in 2004 .It is a shame that it comes down to the almighty dollar and making for a failure of a pond .If they sold to you to start with and made you a success they would sell more to you .I know at one point with the bigger pond I was ready to give up ,but I took my dads notes out for the pond my dad and I built and started following it .I would rather see a ponder happy than unhappy .I helped a few out here either start a pond or figure out what is wrong with the one they built .Here there are no garden centers that have pond supplies or want to even help ponders .We Would have to drive over an hour to the aquascape store in NC and even there they tell people that a 18 inch or 2 foot depth is more than enough .To me it is never enough .I turn people away from koi and wish someone had told me .
     
    sissy, Feb 27, 2016
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  10. sissy

    Smaug God makes perfect. I just dug the hole

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    It's a touchy subject for sure especially on a dedicated pond forum. Realistically though the garden centers end up selling more then less when it's done haphazardly. More chemo for algae,more meds for sickness,uv lights for algae,algae brushes,special foods,silly pond spitters,cheap aerators marked up over 50%. They know what they are doing when it comes to that. It's a learning curve,I don't interfere when on there property and I hear some newb ask for koi fish for their 150 gallon pond. I've only been to one place around here who knows what to do and gives good advice but he keeps strange hours. Thankfully I don't need these places too much except to buy food or maybe a plant.
     
    Smaug, Feb 27, 2016
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  11. sissy

    sissy sissy

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    How true I meant a couple that had a whole shelf in the basement full of stuff for there pond .For a 2500 gallon pond they sold them 2 -36 watt u.v's .There pond was way to shallow for full sun in NC with rocks on the bottom only 12 to 14 inch's deep .They lost all there fish 4 times and now they have had there new pond 2 years and not lost a fish .When you find some one who really cares it is usually a fellow ponder that wants to see you succeed and enjoy your pond .I relied on mostly my fathers notes about our pond .He came home with a rubber liner and said come on sissy we are building a pond ,I was 10 years old and the pond was still there over 30 years later .I think most use there own instincts and if you don't panic when something comes up with your pond you will succeed .
     
    sissy, Feb 27, 2016
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